In this episode of The Flame, Bob Raynor sits down with Rusty Bargeron, a Senior Business Analyst at Einstein Hospital and a passionate illustrator with a degree from Tyler School of Art. Rusty shares his journey of balancing a corporate career with his creative pursuits, exploring the challenges and joys of staying artistically inspired in a practical world. From rediscovering his love for art during the pandemic to finding new ways to approach creativity, Rusty’s story is a testament to the power of staying connected to your passions.
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Show Notes:
Fail. Go ahead and fail. I feel like at least for me personally, that was one of the hardest parts getting back in was knowing I hadn’t done it in so long and being so afraid that something that I was always felt was so good at, and especially when I was younger, I was cocky about how good I was at it. I knew there it was going to be gone. It’s like especially you play a sport, you know, you pitch for 20 years and then you don’t pitch for 10 and you try and pitch again. It’s not going to work. It’s not going to be like it was.
I started off with a medium I never worked in. And the early drawings, I still look at them because I like to compare to see the progress. And I think the failing in the beginning can really ignite you because then when you start to succeed, it makes the success that much better.~Rusty Bargeron
Key Takeaways:
- Balancing Creativity and Work: Rusty shares how he’s maintained his creative spark while working in a less creative environment.
- Rediscovering Passion: How a return to art during the pandemic helped reignite his love for illustration.
- The Power of Personal Projects: Why creating without pressure or deadlines can be the most fulfilling kind of art.
- Lessons from Corporate Life: Rusty talks about how problem-solving at work informs his creative process.
- Advice for Aspiring Creatives: Why failing and experimenting are essential parts of a creative journey.
Episode Links:
- Check out Rusty’s work on Instagram
Episode 7 Transcript:
Rusty
Fail. Go ahead and fail. feel like at least for me personally, that was one of the hardest parts getting back in was knowing I hadn’t done it in so long and being so afraid that something that I was always felt was so good at, and especially when I was younger, I was cocky about how good I was at it. I knew there it was going to be gone. It’s like especially you play a sport, you know, you pitch for 20 years and then you don’t pitch for 10 and you try and pitch again. It’s not going to work. It’s not going to be like it was.
And getting, and again, I started off with a medium I never worked in. And the early drawings, I look, I still have them. I still look at them because it’s always, I like to compare to see the progress. And I think the failing in the beginning can really ignite you because then when you start to succeed, it makes the success that much better.
Bob Raynor
Hey Rusty, how are you?
Rusty
I’m doing well, Bob, how you doing?
Bob Raynor
Good, I’m doing good. It’s really good to see you. I haven’t seen you in a good long time, but it’s good to see your smile and face again.
Rusty
Thank you, thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Pleasure to be on.
Bob Raynor
Absolutely. So why don’t you, for the audience out there, I know Rusty, I’ve known Rusty for a long time now actually, his wife and I worked together in what seems like a previous life, right? You know, I got to be at your wedding and which you just had your anniversary, right? Happy anniversary. Yeah, that’s amazing. That’s amazing. It does. I know I’m 17. I’m only a year ahead of you.
Rusty
Yeah.
Thank you very much, 16 years. Goes by in a blink.
Bob Raynor
But, you know, as time would have it, know, kind of people get onto other things and life happens. But it’s good that we could stay connected through social media. now that kind of when you reached out to me, now that the podcast has kind of brought us back face to face, even if it is electronically, it is great to reconnect. So why don’t you kind of fill me in on what you’ve been up to?
Rusty
Sure, I guess I’ve been with the same company now for 24 years, working healthcare. It started out as kind of, I’m gonna say a BS job. I was in college, I needed money. I got a job as a file clerk. And over the last 24 years, I’ve held many, different positions and found unexpectedly a career out of this. And it’s something that I would have never in a million of years expected or even wanted 20 years ago. But it has been a good thing in the long run. So, you know, for college, when I was in college, I actually went for art. I went to Tyler School of Art. I got my BFA in graphic design and illustration. And when I came out of college, I was starting to try to be a pretty much a print illustrator.
I did watercolor paintings, I was trying to get into magazines and different types of illustration and editorial illustration. I also did some watercolor paintings for gallery work and was in galleries for a few years. So my job in the healthcare network was supposed to be a way to pay some bills. And it essentially turned into, went from file clerk, then I got involved in a billing department because I needed more money. Once I got out of college, know, it needed to make a little bit more money.
Then I met my wife, Rachel, and after a couple of years of trying to be an artist and doing freelance work, it wasn’t paying the bills. was, you you work 20 hours, you get paid $150 and then you got to pay taxes on it. Kind of, kind of stinks. So, went for another job and another job and kind of was able to keep learning and keep kind of advancing my career at Einstein as a means to an end. that’s, that’s originally how I saw it. And actually our, our paths are kind of tied and the reason I want to reach out to you because this is kind of where my creative journey and my creative struggles really came in. When your old job when you worked with Rachel, when they shut that business down and you guys got laid off, that was 2010, I believe. Yeah. So obviously that creates havoc in your life. And for me, I mean, that’s the spouse. It’s, know, I don’t know what she went through, but it’s You know, it’s still a lot for, I think, the people that love you as well.
Bob Raynor
2010, yep.
Rusty
And when she lost her job, thought we were in a great little place and we thought, okay, we’re to get through this. And then everything else in our life went to crap. just we had to deplete our savings because all of a sudden our roof was leaking. Then our hot water heater sprung the leak. and then our HVAC unit, which was our air and our heat went, and that was all within the 11 days of you guys getting laid off. So it just kind of. Things started to pile on and on. And we got through, it took her about a year to find a work.
And at that point, I was very grateful now to have this job that I saw as a means to an end because I was able to have a steady paycheck, have something that I could count on. Yes, it was big business, but it at least allowed for that to come in. And I was able to get her health care benefits, which was something I never really thought about. You you’re young, you don’t really think too much about that. She was getting them from from her previous employer and it was a blessing that we could do that. And then the funny part where this all really started to come down for me was about a year later when she found another job and she got her new job. It was a little less money. It was further away. So now we had guests. We all of a sudden we needed a dog walker because she couldn’t before she worked a mile from the house. She’d stop over at lunch. I’m sure you remember and take care of our pup who was the world to us. And all these little things started to add on bills that we didn’t have before. Again, now I’m paying for her health care. Now we have this. Now we have that.
Bob Raynor
Yep. Yep.
Rusty
And it got to a point where my job, I actually went to my boss and I said, Hey, know, ironically enough, what her employed, we’re almost worse off than she, when she was unemployed and working part time for different people. And I was like, I have to look for a new job. And the nice part about big corporate is apparently they’re never paying you what they actually think you’re worth. And they came back right away and because they didn’t want to lose me and they offered me a very, very nice increase.
And, that was 2011, and it was a bit life-changing, especially at the time. And the reason I mention all this for a creative journey is because at this moment, I started looking at things. And I realized, all right, I’m working hard. I’m making these advancements. Thank God I had this. Thank God I was able to do this. This was a big game changer for us. And all that extra time that I had been putting into art and doing sporadic illustrations for magazines and gallery shows and going to First Fridays and, second Saturdays or whatnot started to become.
I was reluctant to do it anymore because I felt like now I needed to commit to this because God knows what the future was and I felt I needed to commit to my family. So around 2011 I decided I was no longer going to pursue those things. it wasn’t because my wife asked me to, she didn’t want me to not pursue them. I just looked at it as going, all right, I felt like a failure. Here we are years into our relationship. knew there was no chance if we hit a bump in the road that I could support her doing those things. And it had been my dream since I was a kid. That’s all I ever wanted to do. I told everyone when I was five years old, I was gonna be a comp artist. like, I was looking into colleges for art my freshman year of high school. There was nothing going to stop me from doing that. So, you you grow up and the world changes, your world changes. And it was depressing. So, you know,
From a career standpoint, things were going better and I was doing well in my career and I found ways to be creative there. And that’s actually one of the big things I do now is around this time I also started helping us migrate over to our first EMR. So we had to take an old system and figure out how to make it work with a new system. And I work primarily with the schedules. So right now I work with over 700 physicians and designing their schedules. And I try and figure out ways to use different analytics for our patient population, the, to design a schedule using what the system gives me, to meet the needs of the physician and also meet the needs of the patient. So it was a interesting way, like it, from a technical standpoint, I kind of broke the system that we were going to. I went against all the recommendations of those, of the people who actually wrote the system and designers when I got trained by them. And I feel like I’ve done a good job because I’ve been brought in to consult with other major hospitals around the country about how we do things since they work better. And I guess it started going in my head that, all right, I don’t need to be an artist to be creative. There are different avenues to pursue. And I love my metaphors. I always feel like these are the best things. And this is how I talk to a lot of very uncreative people.
Physicians are very, very data and just tunnel vision with how they see things a lot of times. So being creative is not always there, ironically. Yes. So for me to explain what I’m trying to do, I find that using weird metaphors tends to work the best, especially when explaining a complex system and back end and how it works and what I can make happen and what I can’t make happen. So for my personal metaphor is I started to look at it this way, it being the season. If you’re going to decorate a house and you have the same house and the same six Tupperwares full of Christmas decorations and you give that to 10 different people.
Bob Raynor
Right, it’s a lot more black and white for medical professionals.
Rusty
you were going to get 10 very different results. Some of them are going to be very chaotic. Some of them are going to be pretty much typical. But every once in a while, you’re to have one that really blows you away with what they did with what they had and is really cool. And I started thinking of it that way. I can approach things and just kind of do what’s out there. I can start trying to think outside the box and do the best with what I have. So that led me on this kind of journey I’ve been on. And, one of the reasons I wanted to reach out to this podcast was I always thought that that was a good thing, but I’ll be honest with you, I missed art. And I even have gone through when I was trying to do this, I got rid of my art desk, I turned the one little bedroom that we had that was my art studio, we turned it into an office. My wife wasn’t a big fan of me getting rid of my art desk. had had it since I was 13. And I just was like, nope, we don’t have a lot of space. I can use this better for this stuff. And I actually didn’t draw from 2011 through 2017, which I can’t believe I went every day of my life drawing. Yeah. Just put it aside. And, you know, things went on and on and on. And, you know, you start start thinking about other things that make me happy. And like I found was able to be creative with work and then just always kind of disappointed at things. It was ironic. We we ended up moving in 2017 to our current house, had a little more space and, you know, you get a new house, you got a lot more bills. So couldn’t go out as much to do things. It was trying to save some money.
So I would sit down like, how am I gonna occupy myself? Got a sketchbook for the first time in years and actually started doing sketching again and found that, wow, I lost a lot of talent. Definitely, if you don’t use it, you lose it. And started to get back into art. And then I started to realize that it was kind of fun to not have anyone assign me anything and to not try to make money off of something and to just create to create. And started getting into color pencil art, which I never did before.
And start doing that for a couple of years. And then it really took off when we hit the pandemic and we were all locked in. I made the decision. I ordered a bunch of cheap, cheap markers from Amazon and some marker paper. And I was like, I am going to draw nothing but markers on this little six by or five by seven doodle pads until the pandemic is over. Thank you. So now it’s been five years almost to doing it. And I’ve done about 1500 little mini illustrations.
Bob Raynor
I know, I saw all your artwork.
Rusty
So I guess what I’m trying to say is I feel like in, in life, the big lesson I came away with is even if you’re in a completely boring vanilla office job, there are ways to be creative and ways and avenues to, to, to bring something new to the table and being creative and being a creative person. If you go back to what truly sparked that creativity.
If you’re not successful and you can’t monetize it, that doesn’t mean you’re a failure. I always looked at myself as a failure. And now I got to tell you, I am the happiest I’ve ever been as an artist. People have asked me and tried to commission me to do things. I’ve turned them down. I don’t want that anymore. I listen to my music. I do my little doodles and I smile. And out of the 1500, probably two or 300 I’m actually happy with. The rest of them I think are just a lot of junk.
But you know what, there’s no more pressure. And that was the best thing. I feel like creatively, I was in a place of pressure. it’s taken me 15 years to learn what works for me. But here I am. And I guess that’s a very long way of who I am.
Bob Raynor
It’s an amazing story and it’s perfect for the whole reason I started the podcast, right? Which was you get into the corporate world as an artist, as a creative, and your head’s down and you’re, you know, solving other people’s problems or you’re focusing all your time and attention on, you know, certainly things that are, you know, ways to pay the bills. There’s nothing wrong with that. But
you can tend to lose a little bit of whether it’s identity or you just kind of your creative juices after a while. And, and you find that like, I literally just had a conversation the other day with on another episode was where the thought of doing something that brought you so much joy could bring anxiety or feelings of, you know, depression or whatever, you know, things that almost make it a negative experience. And so you put them aside.
For what? Right? You put them aside for money for because you need, you know to live certainly there’s things that you have to do as an adult, but You know what I’m learning is that the things that you’re passionate about are the things that kind of are worth it in the end, right? It’s not really it’s not really about the paycheck when it all when I when it’s all said and done so, I mean it sounds like
You you’ve done a complete 180 and it took you some time to do that. Do you find that now that you’ve rediscovered or, you know, come to, you know, come to peace with your, with your creativity and how it brings you joy, do you find that like you’re, it’s helping you the day job? You know, do you find that now that you’ve rekindled that creativity, you’re finding ways to bring that back into your day to day?
Rusty
Absolutely. It’s actually kind of, it’s altered my view also on career success. So I’ve hit a point where I feel comfortable in what my skill is, my job and whatnot. And I know most people, especially in corporate America, you want to go higher and higher and higher and higher and higher. You keep trying to get to the, reach the tippity top. I’ve decided that’s not something I want to do. I have found a work-life balance where I have my job, I have my work.
And for me to go any higher, know that’s going to mean that maybe I’m working an extra five or 10 hours every week. Right now, I’m very fortunate to work from home. With other positions, I would probably have to go in and spend more time. My commute used to be an hour each way. So that’s another two hours out of your day. So when I think about those kind of things, it’s yes, I could definitely try to advance my career and make more money and do more things like that, which sounds great. But how much time would it kill?
And where would it leave me creatively in my extracurricular time? And I knew that that would go away. And that’s what has found, I’ve found peace in doing. I’m able to turn my brain off with my current job. I’m comfortable with everything that’s going on that I can walk away from it. And pretty much each night sit down with my little sketch pad and watch a movie and doodle for a couple of hours and find that kind of satisfaction. So I found that balance.
And I’m comfortable with the point where I’m looking at things and obviously we’re adults. We, have responsibilities. There’s bills you need to pay, but I’ve also realized that money isn’t the greatest thing in the world and I could work an extra 20 hours, make a lot more money. what’s, what’s that good for? Maybe I don’t need a bigger house. I’m happy. what am I going to just, when I, when I’m fortunate enough to take a vacation, go from, you know, coach to first class, these are things that to me don’t really, seem that worth it when I have hundreds upon hundreds of hours I get to draw and be creative and satisfy that itch.
Bob Raynor
Right. Do you feel like you’re probably one of the most passionate creatives I know. Right. Because you’re one of the only people I see that consistently posts their artwork online, whether it’s Facebook or Instagram. And, you know, there are times when the algorithm shows me a lot of your stuff and times when, you know, I haven’t seen one in a while. But so. Was there was there like a
specific piece that maybe you just, it kind of helped you re-inspire. Like I know that you do a lot of the markers and you dabbled in the pencils and now you’re kind of, you know, having people come to you and maybe wanting to purchase your art. But was there, was there any kind of piece that you sat down and you did that was really like, kind of kicked it back into gear for you?
Rusty
Yes. There’s probably two pieces. What I can think of is it was a color pencil piece that I did of a mermaid. It sounds ridiculous. I don’t really care about mermaids. have nothing that I really feel, but I decided that when I was first starting back out, I like, know what? I wanted to practice doing what I think hair would look like underwater. And I wanted to use…I was learning how to blend colored pencils and I felt like it was one of first times that I really enjoyed what I did. I actually have it framed in our bathroom because I loved it so much. then the. Exactly, that’s gotta be the place it goes. And then the other thing was it’s not so much a piece, but an experience during the pandemic when I was getting back into this and at first it was just drawing to draw just because I had the time and I was at home. Then. I saw and I never seen it before on again.
Bob Raynor
Where else would you put a mermaid, right?
Rusty
Instagram, Inktober. Are you familiar with Inktober?
Bob Raynor
I’m not, can’t say that I am.
Rusty
So it’s a movement in a lot of the, the artist world that I can’t remember this somebody started. I think they started it in 2017, but essentially they give you a list of prompts during the entire month of October. And you’re supposed to do black and white drawings based on those prompts one a day to keep you drawing and keep you active and to encourage that kind of community. And so 2020, I decided to try it and I gave myself my own little challenge. said, okay, not only am I going to follow these prompts,
But because it’s October, all of them have to be some form of spooky. And I wanted to do spooky art. And that was like an assignment from school again, but with no pressure, know, no deadline, no hard deadline that I had to meet, nothing on the table, no one to disappoint. It was just me in my head and what do I find, you know, this word like crawl means in spooky and what do I want to do? And I had a blast doing it. I had a ton of fun and it just, it reinvigorated me to the point where I, all year long I get excited like, okay,
When October is coming, I get to do the October again. So even if I’ve fallen out for a couple weeks, I haven’t drawn much, it’s like, all right, get your hands going, get ready, because you’re going to have a lot of fun doing this. And it’s even spawned this year. Rachel decided, because I always get disappointed when it’s done, she’s like, well, why don’t we do something for Christmas? So she wrote me up a prompt list, the 12 days of Christmas. So I’m working on that right now.
Bob Raynor
Awesome.
Rusty
Every one of the prompts, I again, I gave myself my own little challenge. said, okay, each one of those prompts also has to be from a specific Christmas movie. have to draw inspiration and put that into it. And it’s really, I feel like that was just, it was a way of kind of feeling like I was doing the art that I want to do, but I still have that kind of like college assignment thing, but without the worry of letting an editor down or an art director not doing the right thing and having no real deadline. mean, technically, yes, you’re supposed to post on these days. start.
I stood a couple weeks ahead of time because we all have jobs and responsibility. Exactly. that was a, it was weird. I would never expected that to really light a spark in me, but it was just this little challenge. This little challenge I didn’t have to do, there was no pressure to do. And when I actually just took the time to do it, just, yeah, that’s where that little fire kind of came in my heart.
Bob Raynor
All right, who knows? You post it when you post it.
Yeah, there’s something to be said for doing a little bit every day, right? One of the, you know, the guys I’ve become friends with through LinkedIn was, you know, creative mentor for me. You know, he’s worked at very many high end creative shops throughout the world, but his daily practice is to just sit down and write 20 ideas every day starts his day with it. Just notebook, pen, paper.
20 ideas doesn’t matter what it is, right? It could be an idea for a t-shirt. It could be a line for an ad. It could be, you know, anything. But it’s just repetitive practice of the thing that you’re good at and the thing that brings you joy. And it sounds like, you know, you’ve kind of started that with giving yourself those little assignments. And it sounds like it’s become more of a habit for you where you know, it’s fun to do and it kind of keeps you going, keeps you motivated. How has that translated into life outside of work for you?
Rusty
Good question. I’d probably say is, I think I’m just a happier person. And I think the person who probably notices it the most would be my wife. I don’t think any of my friends notice much of a change, but I think she can see some of the giddiness when I’m doing something. Today I was showing her something. stayed up a little later last night working on something when she went up to bed and I went to show her this morning. I was working on a scene for one of the prompts and she always makes little gingerbread houses at Christmas, and the scene has a bakery, so I hid her gingerbread house in the bakery. So I was excited to look at the little idea I had. I put your little gingerbread house that’s on display in our house in this drawing. It’s probably, to draw it about half inch by half inch, so it’s very tiny, but I think she sees that kind of stuff out of me, I absolutely would not have been there before.
Bob Raynor
Do you think that, you know, I feel like one of the things that happened to me when being out of a job was the sense of, you know, identity that you put, whether it’s in your job or the things that you’re passionate about. So do you feel like you’ve refound your identity or that, you know, that the art is now, you know, your true identity and you don’t have to worry about what you’re doing in your day to day job anymore.
Rusty
Absolutely. So again, I talked earlier about finding ways to be creative at work and how great that was. And it made me realize that that job could actually be a job that I could do and pursue long term. As far as an identity, though, when life changed for me was yes, finding that passion again, I had. I mean, I remember being a little kid, I would get yelled at by my dad, when he first got his first computer and he ran his own business.
And he had his printer. I would steal all the printer paper and do drawings on them all. Any kind of big boxes he would get delivered because he was photographer and he would frame his own work. So he’d get some big UPS boxes with frames in them. And I would cut those boxes up and I would try and see how many X-Men I could draw on a box. And it was, you couldn’t give me anything without me drawing. There were still, he stopped wallpapering one of the walls in my room to draw on the… because when he was redoing my room and I was about, I guess it must have been eight, I just started drawing on the blank wall figure. Well, he’s going to put something up over this anyway. I think he just gave up because it was just, you couldn’t stop me. And that’s how was in high school, college, everything. You couldn’t stop me. I mean, in college, we’d go to Denny’s and drink coffee to four in the morning. And I’d have a sketchbook with me for six hours just drinking coffee and drawing in it.
Bob Raynor
Right?
Rusty
And nothing to do with my assignments and my work, it was just be sitting there hanging out with my friends and that’s what I did. So losing that and going all those years without actually creating anything, without actually drawing in with any kind of purpose, even though life was good, you know, I was doing well in my career, I had my wife, I had my friends, I had my family, everything was good. There was definitely a part of me that was missing and getting that back was huge. And realizing that who I am creatively does not hinge on how much success I have with it. Because again, I always thought that would be my career and I judged myself by that very harshly when I was younger. letting that judgment go has, it’s a weight off your, it’s been a weight off me, that’s for sure.
Bob Raynor
I can imagine. So you think that, you know, you’re, I know you’ve said that you’re kind of in a place of contentment with your art and with your creativity. Do you think, do you ever see a time in the future where, you know, now that you’ve stabilized how you feel about your art, that you will maybe pursue, pursue it more as a career and not just a creative outlet.
Rusty
I don’t want to say no, possibly. I’m still hard on myself and I don’t think like what I’m doing right now I don’t think it’s good enough to be to be out there in the world so much. mean maybe fun and yeah, I thought about. I’m actually debating on trying to get an art booth in the next Doylestown Arts Fair just to bring again. I have 1500 of these things. I don’t know what the heck I’m going to do with them.
Bob Raynor
Spoken like a true artist. I bet Michelangelo thought the Sistine Chapel sucked.
Rusty
I actually started taking all the ones that are monsters. I’m making a monster wall on my first floor. It’s one whole wall of all these framed little monsters. That’s the other bad thing is what are you going to do as an artist? I have closets just full of sketchbooks and just so much stuff. So I’m debating on maybe doing something like that and trying to sell it, but again, not for too much gain. I’m not going to go here trying to sell these things for $1,500. I’m thinking like $5, $10. Hey, you like it? Great. I want people to feel like they can see something that they like.
spend five bucks on it, put it up in their kid’s room, the kid doesn’t like that character anymore, they toss it, fine. It’s one of my back. If somebody got some joy out of it for a little while, that’s awesome. The other thing is too, I don’t know if this will be the medium I wanna work in. I’ve bought some clay and I’ve never been very good with 3D, but I wanna start trying to sculpt and see what I can do with that. So, ask me again when I’m 60.
Bob Raynor
I think the great part about art and creativity is that you’re never locked into one medium, right? I mean, you go from drawing to working on a computer, doing design to working with your hands. You know, I did that as way to get myself out of a rut back in, you know, early in fall was to just do things with my hands and like, whether that was make decorations for my Halloween display or try to, you know, sketch some pictures or just do something where I felt like
Rusty
Absolutely.
Bob Raynor
I had complete and total control over what I was doing. And so I don’t think you should feel locked into, hey, my medium is pen and ink that I can’t switch it up. Or if I start as pen and ink, people are going to change their opinion of me because I’ve gone and tried something else. Even our favorite musicians change how they sound and change the… the instruments that they use or whatever. I can remember it was kind of a big deal when like Dave Matthews band put out an album that was more electric guitar than acoustic, right? Sure. So I think it’s you just go where your art takes you and people will follow you. Because I think you’re I do think you’re a really great artist.
Rusty
Or when Bob Dylan went electric.
Thank you. And I agree. that’s the one part about the one problem with the world I was trying to break into is illustration. You need to one, the style I was using, looking back on it, I felt was a little forced because I was trying to create something very unique. And even at that young age, I was still learning how to work within the style that I was creating. It was always a challenge like, God, I have to do a bookshelf. What does a bookshelf look like in my style?
What a bookshelf looks like, if I just want to draw it, I know. And that’s kind where I am right now. Everything I do is just, I’m not, this, guess, is a more authentic me and what I am. It might not be as interesting as some other people. Like I think about, like Tim Burton, that is a style you know right away. Exactly. And that’s one of the big things that was impressed upon us in college was you need to be unforgettable. You need this kind of style. And I, again,
Yeah, you look at it… magazines whatnot, they want painting. They don’t want marker a lot of times. It’s very rare that you become successful, at least back then, not using a traditional medium. I think of like Ralph Stedman, who was ink. But you look at Stedman’s work and it’s crazy. You’re never going to forget that. So I got the watercolor and that’s a rough medium. And it was I think that was one of the frustrating parts. It was very difficult.
to work and create these things. And again, I’d go to work for eight hours a day. I’d have my two hour commute. I’d come home. I’d have a job. I’d be working with an editor. And again, this is 25 years ago. So it’s not as quick with text and whatnot that there’s no FaceTime. There’s none of this stuff. I don’t have email on my phone. There’s no smartphone. So I’m getting home, logging in, trying to see what they said, scanning drawings, sending them over, getting a response a couple of hours later, and then staying up to four in the morning working on something to get it to them so I don’t miss any deadlines just to leave at 6 a.m. to go to my job.
It was frustrating. So I just went a weird tangent there. I’m sorry. So yes, so being able to change styles and change mediums is nice. Because again, it gets more of that creative bug out. When you’re even as a creative person, think when you’re forced, it doesn’t matter how good you are at it, when you’re forced to do something, not everyone’s meant for that. And I found that I’m just not, I thought I was, I’m not. It didn’t bring me satisfaction.
Bob Raynor
No. Because you feel like you have to conform or put yourself in a box for certain things. Yeah, mean, as far as… kind of the value of creativity. how do you, what do you think is the value of creativity in everyday lives? Not just for people who are, you know, trained creatives like you, but for people who don’t see themselves as artists. Is there ways for, you know, or advice that you would have for people that are maybe in similar situations where like,
They feel like they have this other calling or they just feel run down and want ways to re-energize themselves.
Rusty
Yeah, I think that what is creative is such a vast spectrum and so many people don’t realize what they do is creative. Whether you be, you know, somebody who just bakes, you know, or just the art of cooking. There’s so many different things that you can do to be creative and put your own mark on things. And it’s so cliche. You got to find the joy. What brings you joy and to continue to do those things. Like if you ask my wife, is she an artist? She’s going to say no.
I think she is. One of her favorite things is making these little gingerbread houses every Christmas and doing stuff like that. And she has, she loves a good spreadsheet. And we’re going on vacation in a couple months and she’s got, yeah, she’s got a giant, she has one of my old sketch pads, this huge like 16 by 20 sketch pad. And she’s made her little grids about where we’re going, where we’re going to eat, what ones we need reservations for, it’s color coded.
Bob Raynor
Why she’s a great account manager.
Rusty
And it’s something you can do in Excel, but she has fun and that brings her joy. And all those little things, to the point where her dad got her a little plaque that says, I have a spreadsheet for that. She has to keep at her desk. know, people have their names. She has, have a spreadsheet for that. And it’s, she uses it at work to help organize things. And I know doing it for her is enjoyable, especially when you get a good result and people actually can follow it. And you’ve made someone else’s life easier as well as your own.
And then she also does it at home, whether it be our vacations, what she’s right now, one of the ones she has is what are we cooking for Christmas dinner? What do we need? Where are we going? just finding, she adds a little artistic creativity to how she organizes herself. And I think that’s awesome. And I feel like maybe it’s with photography. it’s with the way you groom a dog. It brings you joy and you can find a way to be different and execute something that maybe someone wouldn’t have thought to do. I just think that’s awesome.
Bob Raynor
Right. Yeah, I mean, it just goes back to your analogy of the Christmas decorations, right? Given the same set of tools, you’re going to get a whole bunch of different ways of viewing things. And I think that is good advice for people who, like yourself, were struggling with your own style. It’s good to emulate people that you look up to or admire in terms of style, whether that’s art or whether that’s design.
But eventually the more you do it, the faster you’ll find your own style and your own voice for things. Have you thought about, now know you said you’re trying to get a booth and things like that, but what about self-publishing, like digital, posting things online? think that maybe back when we were in school, there was less availability to do that. And now, is that something you’ve thought about, maybe like self-publishing and just putting prints online.
Rusty
Yes, I’m torn on that. I mean, back when I was trying to make a life out of this, had websites and, you know, it was mainly to connect with different publications and editors and art directors. And I had, again, back in 2011, I shut it down, I shut everything down. I do Instagram now. don’t hashtag, I don’t really do much. I’ll do the hashtags during October, just because it’s a way to…
I love being able to click on them all and see what all these other artists around the world are doing for it. I think that’s one of the coolest things. It’s just people coming up with these crazy ideas, stuff that I wouldn’t have thought of and being able to share my vision. And it’s neat to interact with some of those artists. As far as self-publishing and again, monetizing it, it’s scary to me because it changed my view of things.
That’s why I thought about the booth is just kind of a way to talk to people about art because I love to talk about art. And if someone wants to buy for five, 10 bucks, hey, then I don’t feel like because I guess there’s always an imposter syndrome as well. You want to charge what you feel you’re worth. And then when you find the first time you get that, you’re almost like, did I rip them off? But then you think about all the hours, the countless hours that went into creating that and winning, it went into developing those skills.
Bob Raynor
Yeah.
Rusty
And it is worth it, but the imposter syndrome still sits there. And that’s why I guess I said, like, with this medium, I’m kind of looking at it. I’m like, I’m not good enough yet. I’m not good enough to charge yet. And when I was younger, I probably really wasn’t good enough. Although people did pay, which was shocking to me. But I just felt like,
Bob Raynor
Right. Right. You’re not you’re not holding them up. You know, you’re not trying to shake people down.
You know, you spend a lot of time and effort learning. You know, I remember watching a video from Christo. I don’t know if you know who Chris Do is. He’s kind of he’s like a design influencer. And he talks about the business side of design. And, you know, should he be penalized because he can do something fast and well at the same time?
Or should he charge less because it only took him a short amount of time and that kind of puts him in a a bind, right? So you spend all that time learning, training, discovering, and you know, it’s it’s worth something, you know, doesn’t always have to be monetary, but you know, certainly in a case where you’re we’re talking about potentially making a career out of your art out of your creativity. Yeah, I think it’s just you should feel good about what you’ve done and also putting a value on
Rusty
No, you’re absolutely right. then it comes down to also what are you doing for the community when you sell your work? By lowering your price and lowering your value, you do lower other people’s. It’s almost like the housing market, you know, and what are the comps for your neighborhood? Because you can see, especially this day and age, graphic design, photography, all the traditional arts are fighting such a battle. And you really saw it. think at first time with photography, my dad was a photographer when digital came about and you didn’t have to worry about film and you could see your picture and what you took on that. There’s not people sitting there so concerned, you you lost a little bit of the art of knowing what you were capturing and what settings to put on the camera and knowing how it was going to turn up to being able to envision that to crop that to set that picture up. Now you take 2000 of them and you take the one you like as opposed to when you had a roll of 24 shots. You weren’t going to see it for a few days and
How was going to turn out? Was it going to be in focus? Was it going to be underdeveloped? Was it going to have bad lighting? And that started to, people were able to lean into that and kill a lot of really great artists. For me, for illustration, one of the big things that happened was with the internet, the first boom was all these kinds of stock sites. And that was something that we were encouraged not to do, but a lot of people did. You would take your portfolio, all this work you had, and you could sell it to a stock site right out of college.
And I could have, and they would pay you like five grand, which seems astronomical at that age for 50 of your illustrations. And they could then use them as much as they wanted and not attach your name to it at all. And a lot of people did that. And a lot of companies would start doing that instead of paying you hundreds and hundreds of dollars. They’re just going to, you know, have this stock subscription and grab whatever they want for whatever article. And now you see it with graphic design.
and all this AI and so many people think they’re designers and they can just. Everyone has access to Photoshop now, you know, and the apps on your phone and what you can do. But when you actually see a real illustrator, a real photographer, a real designer, sit down and do it. You realize there there’s absolutely a reason to still use these people. If you want the most creative and the best thing and you want to put that kind of product out there. But.
Again, everything’s volume now. It’s just getting stuff out. I’ll be honest, it worries me. I worry where creative world is going. I almost feel like we’re all gonna get replaced and then things are gonna get so standard and no one’s gonna be creating anything anymore that people are gonna go, God, what the hell’s going on? There’s no more art students coming out and then someone’s gonna come up and do something by hand and there’s gonna be a renaissance. I don’t know if I’ll be alive to see it, but… So I guess…
Bob Raynor
Right. Right. It’s like the clothing industry, right? Fast fashion is the wave. When people are just, buy things, they wear them, they discard them. It ruins the quality of the clothing. A pair of jeans isn’t like a pair of jeans from maybe 20 years ago, right? So I was going to ask you about AI and how that has changed your opinion of…of your artwork. And if you’ve if that’s another medium you’ve thought about, or if you just are like vehemently against learning that on principle.
Rusty
No. I like to use my hands. what I do is I have one app on my phone and again, I’m not trying most of the pictures I post. It’s I don’t, I don’t even have a scanner anymore. I don’t put them in through any programs. When I’m done with my drawing, I take it to a little ledge in my house. So I think has a good white balance and I hold my camera above it and I take a picture of it and I crop it out. And that’s it. It’s really a poor man’s way. I mean, I used to have much better ways of uploading my artwork to computers. And again, it’s about being simple and having fun. But I have one app that I like, and I will almost always put filters on. I’ll do like three different versions. So when I post it, it’ll be here’s the original. Sometimes I’ll do here’s the black and white version where it started. And then here’s three fun filters because I just thought they look cool. But I will tell you 99.9 % of time, I still like my original better than those. I look at them and I see stuff like that.
I see so many people who have taken stuff and put it through a filter and used their phones or used an app and why it smooths things out. It covers up blemishes. I like the blemishes. I like the things that make it unique. Again, are you familiar with Ralph Steadman?
Bob Raynor
I’ve heard the name, but probably not as much as you’re into it.
Rusty
A weird, here’s a weird look. Can you by any chance picture the poster for Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, movie with Johnny Depp? That is Ralph Steadman. He did a lot of artwork for that. He was actually very close with, he was friends with Hunter S. If you look at his work, it is so chaotic and it is beautiful. And if you put that through a filter and messed it up, it’s just.
That’s what it would be to me. It would be messing it up. It would be taking some of the joy out of it. Like one of the things when I did painting, when I was a watercolor painter, I did ink as well. And one of my favorite things to do was ink splash. Like just splashes of ink. was similar to Stedman. That’s where I got the inspiration for it. And finding different ways to do it. And God, the one you had to like, I cut little pieces of paper and put it over a face. Like I cannot have a giant blob of black ink hit this little face. It’ll ruin everything. So then you have to think about that and then, all right, how do you do it? So I would get bad bent quill nibs. I dip them in ink and you just flick it. And then I started using toothbrushes, old toothbrushes, and that would get you a different type. Sometimes just use an eyedropper and try it from different heights. Made a mess, made an absolute mess. But sometimes that chaos was some of the coolest part. And now you get this auto-generated chaos in these apps and it’s just.
There’s an algorithm. It follows how it’s designed to do things. And you you can put the same picture. You can put it in, see what it look like, cancel it, and then do it again. And it’s going look exactly the same. There’s nothing. It reads, it reads the lines and it reacts. And again, that looks cool. But after a while, I find it to be honestly boring. I know people love it and they think it’s interesting. To me, it just gets boring. I’ve seen it, seen it all.
Bob Raynor
Yeah. I started messing with it when it came out kind of playing with mid journey. And very similar to how you did the inktober and doing the you know, the spooky stuff. That’s kind of that was my creative outlet for a while when feeling stuck. At the time, I think mid journey came out 2122 something like that. And just seeing how it has progressed is pretty scary. Like, what it was able to do when it first came out to what it’s doing now. And you still see, and now I’m seeing a lot of video, right? So it’s gone from just photo illustration style, mimicking things to now you create an image that you want, you prompt an AI video editor and it can start to generate, you know, things that weren’t even there, right? And it’s pretty crazy. It’s like you said, it’s still very easy to tell what is AI and what isn’t.
Rusty
Yeah. And I’m not against it. I definitely think it’s so much fun and I feel like people should use it and enjoy it. Where I’m afraid is how many of people like yourself and myself are just going to be replaced by it people think it can do a better job. I don’t think it can. And I feel like putting it in the hands of a creative is incredibly powerful. but again, there’s something about our brains and how we function. I don’t want to… I like seeing how you view the world, not necessarily how something that you gave some data to thinks you view the world. And that will always be, for me personally, just far more fascinating. Again, I love to see people create and do that stuff. And it can absolutely be a game changer in a lot of areas. But you look at even, let’s look at a lot of movies now, like animated movies. They’re starting to all look kind of the same.
And people are using, you know, it’s there’s these trends. But I think about when we were younger, growing up, you think about movies that were probably not kids movies, but we’re told were kids movies. you think about Labyrinth, Dark Crystal, Nightmare Before Christmas, Coraline, Wallace and Gromit. All these, you start looking at all this, this different type of stop motion animation or Charlie Brown, how that was done with the Grinch in the original style that was done in
And they’re so unique. Now you look at stuff and it’s just. Most of it to me personally is kind of overly done CG and the kind of AI stuff where it’s just and I feel like it doesn’t always age well. Like I know people love on Polar Express Polar Express is one of the creepiest movies I think I’ve ever seen.
Bob Raynor
I just had one of my daughter’s
friends just told her like, cause they did a, she sang the song from the movie at her most recent recital. her, one of her friends was like, I don’t like that movie because it creeps me out. The artwork creeps me out. And you know, looking back, yeah, it is kind of that, yeah, it is kind of creepy looking, but then you have a movie like Jurassic Park that holds up and I think still looks better than any of the CG stuff that comes out.
Rusty
They don’t have souls! And, absolutely. And you think about, again, a director I loved, I loved the original Lord of the Rings trilogy. If you watch The Hobbit, they relied way too much on CG. Like, when they were using the Force perspective originally, and it was such a great trick. And yeah, you could have very well easily done that with CG. And it’s probably a hell of lot cheaper now. But using those old tried and true methods are amazing. It’s just, I don’t know if you, there’s a, what is that?
can’t remember if it’s on Netflix. It’s like the story behind the movies. And there’s one on Elf. I just watched it the other night. It’s fantastic. And it’s all the different force perspective tricks they used to make Buddy the Elf look so much bigger. And when you see it behind the scenes, it’s just so, to me, it’s so beautiful and so creative. And just all these practical effects on even to like theme park rides. There’s, Pepper’s Ghost is on the Haunted Mansion where that’s how they make all the dancers look in the ballroom scene is by reflecting off a glass. And it’s so neat. And again, yeah, you can use CG for all this stuff. And sometimes you absolutely need it. You absolutely need it. There’s no way to create that. But it’s so cool when you work it in with practical effects as well. And I think that’s where the creativity really comes. When you start leaning too much on these programs and computers and design things, yes, there’s always going to be a creative element as long as we’re involved, as long as mankind is involved in it.
But there seems to always be an answer and maybe it’s not always the best one. I like when you’re working outside the box and you don’t have a computer and you’re trying to think about what the answer is. I still believe there is an answer. I feel like getting to that answer is the fun part. Figuring it out. How am I going to do this? How am I going to make this look? What is this effect going to be?
Bob Raynor
I just listened to a podcast the other day where the person being interviewed was executive creative director, has jumped around, worked at all these big agencies and had somebody on the team that loved just coming up with ideas. They realized that they found joy in the ideation and not necessarily the ad that was created. it was, and then when that when that goes away, if things change or accounts change or you get a different position, then you kind of lose a little bit of what you loved about. That’s why I hear so many people say, they hate advertising. They hate working in advertising. And it’s like, well, do you or do you just hate certain aspects about it? Or maybe you’re just having a bad day or something. But it’s really, you know, kind of what we’ve been circling around here is that our daily jobs can really take a lot of the passion out of our work. So I guess that leads me to my next question is, if someone is feeling, I’ll say, stuck or disconnected from their passion, what would you tell them to help them reconnect with their creative spark kind of based on what you went through?
Rusty
Fail. Go ahead and fail. feel like at least for me personally, that was one of the hardest parts getting back in was knowing I hadn’t done it in so long and being so afraid that something that I was always felt was so good at, and especially when I was younger, I was cocky about how good I was at it. I knew there it was going to be gone. It’s like especially you play a sport, you know, you pitch for 20 years and then you don’t pitch for 10 and you try and pitch again. It’s not going to work. It’s not going to be like it was.
And getting, and again, I started off with a medium I never worked in. And the early drawings, I look, I still have them. I still look at them because it’s always, I like to compare to see the progress. And I think the failing in the beginning can really ignite you because then when you start to succeed, it makes the success that much better. For me, actually an exercise I like to do is when I started this again in 2020.
When I moved to the ink and I gave myself this little challenge. I go back every year in March when I started it and I look at one of the drawings I did from the first couple months and I draw it again how I would do it now and color it now and just and it’s it’s something that I when I look back I know I thought this was really good at the time and I look at it now I’m like man that was crap look how much better I could do this now and it’s just that reminder that and it’s a great reminder.
Bob Raynor
That’s a core exercise, I used to do that, I used to do that. Find things from when I was a kid and redraw them.
Rusty
Yeah, and it shows you how far you’ve come. And I feel like that’s another thing about being creative is when you feel, when you can see those advancements and you get that personal satisfaction, that’s huge for me. So I would say, yeah, if you’re struggling to do it, just don’t be afraid to fail. Fail, go ahead, fail, start something, take a chance, do something out of your comfort zone and let yourself fail. And once you’ve done that, you can just go up and you can finally move forward.
Bob Raynor
That’s awesome. That’s a great piece of advice. think everyone’s afraid to fail or afraid of what’s going to happen. And it’s another theme that has been popping up in these discussions I’ve been having is that, you know, so many people, the reason why they’ve stopped or put things aside is out of fear, where, you know, they’re scared of something. And what I’ve learned is that if you’re going to, if you’re scared to do something, do it anyway and do it scared. Right? mean, it’s funny how like, you know, talked with five different people now, but some a lot of the themes are the same here. So I applaud you for coming to that conclusion and to, you know, being able to get past your own fears with your artwork and just, you know, enjoy it and enjoy the process. So to that point, what’s next for you, Rusty? What’s next for you know, whether that’s art, whether that’s, you know, career outlook, what do you think is next for you?
Rusty
I don’t know, but guess one thing I think is next for me is I think I’m rounding out after doing, I think I was trying to figure out, I think it’s about 4,000 5,000 hours worth of these little drawings is what I’ve put in over the past couple years. I think it’s time for me to fail again and try something a little outside of my comfort zone.
Bob Raynor
and that’s okay. Love it.
Rusty
I’ve got a block of clay sitting upstairs I’ve been staring at for two years with my clay my cheap clay tools because that’s what I always start with the cheapest crap I can find off Amazon so I don’t feel like when I feel at least I’m not I’m not beating myself up about the cost of it but it’s been it’s literally sitting in my guest room on a little little cheap turntable I bought for it it’s in a ziplock bag to keep some of the moisture in it and I see it every week and I keep going soon soon I’m not done with it I’m not done with that yet soon. And I think that’s probably what’s next for me is to make some really… First thing I… I just want to make something that looks like it’s supposed to look. Whether it be a little bit of a face, even if it looks alien, just something… somewhere where if I put it online people would recognize that it’s supposed to be a vase or a cup.
Bob Raynor
Do you need an assignment? I need to give you an assignment? Do I need to text Rachel and tell her to give you an assignment for that?
Rusty
But I think that would be what’s next for me is to finally stop dragging my feet and to go ahead and fail at something else and see if I enjoy it.
Bob Raynor
I expect posts Rusty claymation next week.
Rusty
Give me the after the holiday. I finished my 12 days Christmas.
Bob Raynor
Okay, all right, all right. No, that’s awesome. So I listen, I appreciate you coming on and kind of getting caught up with you. And you know, was like I said, it’s really great to see you again and to hear that things are going really well. And I look forward to, you know, keeping in touch and seeing your journey as you go. And would love to have you back on at another time to see how things are going.
Rusty
I’d love that. I wish you the best and I think this is awesome. It’s so cool to actually be able to sit down and listen to a bunch of people a little bit commiserate and a little bit just talk about what’s, you what helps them through the day. It’s cool. You never know where you’re going to find the best piece of advice and inspiration.
Bob Raynor
Yeah. Well, absolutely. I appreciate you listening and coming on and we’ll talk again soon.
Rusty
So thank you for putting this out there. Sounds great.
Bob Raynor
Thanks, Rusty.
Rusty
Thanks, Bob.
Bob Raynor
Thanks to Rusty Bargeron for being a guest on today’s show and thank you for joining me on The Flame Podcast. There’s definitely more to come. Please take a minute to follow, subscribe or hit the like button if you haven’t done so already. And if you have any feedback, or I’d like to be a guest on my show, send me a message. I’d love to hear from you.