In this episode of The Flame, Bob Raynor speaks with Elissa Mendez-Renk, a talented pianist and former advertising professional who recently made the leap to pursue her passion for music full-time. Elissa shares her journey of rediscovering her creative flame, transitioning from the structured world of pharma advertising to the freedom of music and teaching. Together, they discuss the challenges of making such a bold career shift, the role of creativity in mental health, and the power of music to bring joy and connection.
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Show Notes:
I spoke to another woman who was kind of giving me some pointers on starting a private piano lesson or piano studio. And she was like, you have this warmth and enthusiasm and like, that’s really the most important thing. You could be the best piano player in the world. And if you don’t have that with children, none of it matters, nobody cares.
It, might sound strange to say that like my being an account director or being an account management taught me warmth, but it did because I have to know how to talk to people in a way that’s going to make them feel comfortable or safe or secure. And in the business world, those emotional learning skills are so, I feel like they’re very undervalued. They’re not talking about as much as they should be, especially in advertising and especially with women in advertising.
~ Elissa Mendez-Renk
Key Takeaways:
- From Advertising to Music: Elissa explains why she left the corporate world to prioritize her passion for music and teaching.
- The Role of Creativity in Mental Health: How piano lessons and joining a choir sustained her through tough times.
- Rediscovering Joy in Music: Overcoming anxiety and reconnecting with the playful side of creativity.
- Lessons from the Advertising World: Bringing business skills and empathy to a career in teaching music.
- Advice for Following Your Passion: Why doing it scared is better than not doing it at all.
Episode Links:
Episode 6 Transcript:
Elissa
I spoke to another woman who was kind of giving me some pointers on starting a private piano lesson or piano studio. And she was like, you have this warmth and enthusiasm and like, that’s really the most important thing. You could be the best piano player in the world. And if you don’t have that with children, none of it matters. Nobody cares. It, might sound strange to say that like my being an account director or being an account management taught me warmth, but it did because I have to know how to talk to people in a way that’s going to make them feel comfortable or safe or secure. And in the business world, those emotional learning skills are so, I feel like they’re very undervalued. They’re not talking about as much as they should be, especially in advertising and especially with women in advertising.
Bob Raynor
Good morning, Elissa. How are you?
Elissa
Good morning. I’m good. How are you?
Bob Raynor
Good. Thank you for joining me.
Elissa
Thanks for having me.
Bob Raynor
This is it’s surreal, right? A little bit. Just a little bit. It’s it’s crazy to think that, like, you know, go from from colleagues to not colleagues in a short amount of time, but how quickly you feel like you can create a connection or become friends with somebody who you’ve never met in person.
Elissa
Yes. Yes.
Bob Raynor
And I feel that way about you. I mean, we had a lot of one-to-ones while we were at Dragons, even though like we weren’t reporting to each other. But, you know, sometimes you just click with somebody, you have a good working relationship and, you know, you kind of want to keep that friendship going. So I’m really excited to have you on and I appreciate the time we got to work together.
Elissa
Yeah, same here. And I’m very happy to be here, most especially because I’ve seen your podcast from the very beginning and the, you know, just the idea and it blossoming has been really fun to watch. So thank you.
Bob Raynor
Well, thank you. I appreciate it. I remember a conversation we had at one point where I learned that you were a trained musician and an educated trained musician. Like you came up. That was your goal or your profession when you were going to or what you wanted it to be right when you were going to school. And now and then you ended up I was so surprised at how you ended up in the advertising world and pharma and you know, now that you’re kind of not anymore, like me, you were, you were laid off. what was it? August for you.
Elissa
Yeah, end of August.
Bob Raynor
Okay. and now you’re, you’re making that kind of that leap or that shove from the advertising and pharma industry now back into, music. So, I want to give you an opportunity to just kind of introduce yourself, talk a little bit about
you know, your history, your work history, where are going? But that little teaser now of, you know, going and finding your passion is the perfect subject for this podcast, which is I was excited to have you on.
Elissa
Yeah, absolutely. So, I’m excited to share because I even though I’m like actively stepping away from the advertising world, every guest that you’ve had on and every story that’s been shared, can so absolutely relate to in so many ways. I’ve been in the advertising world for 11 years. It’s been the only career I’ve had to date and now I’m ending it.
So, it’s really been an interesting time to reflect and also reevaluate. So there’s been a lot of good and there’s been a lot of not so good, but I’m trying to just take it all as a gift. So a little bit about me. As you said, I studied music in college. I went and got my master’s in music ed a couple of years later, graduated kind of just after the peak of the pandemic, which is a weird time to kind of say,
Yeah, I definitely want to chase a completely new career path. But I should back up and start by saying that when I graduated undergrad, I went to school in New York. I wanted to continue living in New York, but I didn’t grow up in New York. So the biggest hurdle for me was making money, you know, naturally. I didn’t have family or a support net of any kind, so I wanted to do something that was creative and that was gonna challenge me. But I knew it wasn’t necessarily going to be music because I would not be able to thrive right away. so hence advertising. and I did stir out in a very creative place. And then over time it wound up in pharma, which is not to say that pharma doesn’t have its own creative challenges, but it’s definitely a little bit more rigid and structured. so I also, I ended up as an account director. That’s how we met. but.
Elissa
I did not think that I wanted to start in account management at all. I actually wanted to be a strategist from the very beginning. But, you know, just like I always think about the orchestra, I played violin, there’s always a plethora of violinists. There’s always a need for account management. There’s never enough roles and open positions for strategy. So I ended up going the account management route. I definitely had a lot of imposter syndrome from the very beginning. I was like, I don’t know if this is me. This is a lot of like business that I had no introduction to the business world other than just being in that job. So the first couple of years was just really, really trying and definitely difficult. I gave blood, so to speak. I stayed a lot of nights working in the office late. And then I finally kind of like year five found my stride.
And I was like, you know, I actually really enjoy this aspect of growing relationships and having to manage an account. I mean, it took a long time to see what the value for me in that was. So all of this to say that I’ve loved my time in advertising. It’s just that my passion has always been music. I’ve played piano since I was six. I continue to play to this day and I’ve maintained lessons through most of that time as well. And I, you know, I guess since the pandemic, it became pretty clear that I wanted to teach in a school ideally K through 12 setting. So yeah, now I have the opportunity to explore that. I’ve moved to a new city, AKA I left New York. Which kind of opened up a lot of opportunities in terms of being less afraid to explore one of the biggest public school systems in the country and move to a slightly smaller area and really have to introduce myself to everybody I meet along the way. So it’s opened a lot of doors. It’s challenged me to grow in ways that I kind of expected, but also didn’t expect at all. And that’s where I am now.
Bob Raynor
That’s an amazing story. I don’t think people get the opportunity to do that in their careers very often where they find themselves in one situation and then all of sudden they’re taking the reins and pursuing what it is they really love to do. is there, was there, mean obviously getting laid off can force anybody to do anything like start a podcast that for whatever reason, but like, was there, was there something other than the layoff or any point where you felt like, you know what, I really need to, where, where basically you felt like it was time to prioritize your passion for music over a more traditional career path.
Elissa
Mm hmm. Yeah, I would say the last year has been a culmination of all of that. My mother started having some health problems at the beginning of 2023. And we are close. She’s basically my closest family. But since she lives in Washington, D.C., which is where I am now, and I was in New York, the four hour time difference is making it difficult to care for her in the ways that I wanted to show up. So.
I tried to sustain that through most of 2023 and there came an inflection point around September of last year where it just, it wasn’t cutting it. I felt so far away. I felt like I was on another planet when I needed to be here and in case of an emergency. So I would say last fall is when I started contemplating a move to a new city. And in so doing, I think my supervisor caught notice of the fact that I was kind of distracted and just a little less.
I don’t know, on my A game, you know, at work. So she kind of pulled me aside and was like, hey, listen, some things need to change if you want to stay here. So that was my, beginning of my journey to, okay, thank you for letting me know. I think I understand where this is coming from. And also I’m going to start looking into what is my next step.
And that was a long process. And I am so grateful that my last company before dragons, you know, supported me in that. so I basically told them upfront, I want to move to Washington, DC. need to be closer to family. And I’m going to try and do an internal transition because I was working at, I was working at one of the big holding companies. And so they had a lot of options in other cities. So I pursued that for a while. Nothing was really showing up. And,
And then I had to, you know, kind of branch out and that’s how I ended up finding dragons. But, yeah, that’s why I say it took most of this year to like, you know, figure out, okay, I need to be where my family is. And I also need to think about, is this really the right career path for me going forward? Is it going to sustain me and what I need to do? And am I happy? You know, that’s like the biggest question. Am I happy in what I’m doing? Is it,
Is it getting me to where I want to go? And the answer to that question was no. So that required a lot of deep introspection and just saying like, I’m good at what I do. I enjoy what I do. And I love the people that I work with. But is that enough? Yeah.
Bob Raynor
Yeah, it’s a lesson that, you know, I’ve got kids in their teenage years now, early teenage years, and my daughter who’s in music, she is already like, what am going to do for a job and all this stuff? like, you are 14. You don’t need to worry about that right now. I said, you just focus on doing what makes you happy. And, you know, if you can sing, if you have no problem being happy sitting in a room by yourself playing the piano and singing, then that’s all that matters. And then if you do that, you know, that brings joy to people, but you got to bring joy to yourself first. so she’s that’s what she’s doing is. But along the way, are there people that you lean on to, know, whether it’s a mentor or any other people that you you found connection with that help you? know that, you I’m on the right path or, you know, this is what I want to do, or this is why I want to do it.
Elissa
Yeah, definitely. Here in the Washington, D.C. metro area, the biggest thing that’s been such a support system in an unexpected way was joining my choir. First of all, I’ve never been a part of a choir before. I do sing. I have sung all my life, but I never considered myself a singer, so I’ve always been a little bit shy about it.
But I used to live with a singer and she was always, she was always pushing me to join a choir. And I was like, I’m not ready, I’m not ready. But I was when I moved here, I really wanted to find musical community. That was like my number one. If I was going to meet people outside of the screen, which is where I was working a hundred percent remotely, I wanted it to be connected to music. So I joined the choir and it just so happened that the first rehearsal I attended was like the week after I was laid off.
Total coincidence, but you know, in my mind, there was no such thing as a coincidence. I’ve met some really lovely people through that. It’s an all women’s trouble acapella barbershop choir, which all of this is new to me, but I wanted to do. Yes, yes. It is super fun. And it’s so outside of my comfort zone because I’m a classically trained musician and this is not that it’s more like.
Bob Raynor
Sounds incredible. I want to hear it. I need a link.
Elissa
Broadway, show tune, performancey, know, kind of what I would consider like almost campy. But I love it because it’s all super positive and everything you sing, you have to sing with a smile. And that actually does make you feel very joyful. So that’s been my biggest support system. I have met a couple of individuals who have really, really like taken it upon themselves to help me.
Personally, they have connected me to people in the public school system. As soon as they knew that like I wanted to teach music, they’re like, I know people, talk to this person, talk to this person. And it’s facilitated this transition in so many ways that I would not have had access to these people were it not for the choir.
Bob Raynor
I love the music community. mean, I just with my wife being a music teacher and my kids being in musicals and things, it’s an incredible sense of community. talk to me about how you’ve handled going from maybe being in person all the time and then COVID and now we’re behind screens like you mentioned, we’re basically remote company, remote career and then being back in person, how has that helped, that physical connection helped you kind of stoke that flame for you?
Elissa
My gosh. Yeah, it’s such a relevant question because it’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot too. I have mostly, 90 % of the time since COVID, been living alone. And peak COVID, was…
all like when it was like really, really bad in New York City and we were the epicenter of everything. I was living there alone and it was very scary. Most people that I knew in person had left the city. And so, you know, I’m thinking about that was I was in grad school at the time. So was on my computer working remotely from like 9 a.m. to almost 10 p.m. on the nights that I had classes. And if not, I was working on assignments. So I was basically alone and at my computer.
100% of the time. And then, you know, gradually we came back into the office. It became a hybrid situation. Then I went back to remote when I made this transition and made this big city move. And then all of a sudden, you know, with the layoff, was like nothing. So I took that as a, as a chance to really change things because I realized in all of this that I really miss the in-person component. I really miss working with people, you know, live. And I got some of that when I was in the office, but having to go back and forth, the hybrid situation is what I would deem exhausting because you’re never able to sort of recalibrate, especially with three days in the office. So I am actually embracing this idea that if I work in the schools as a full-time music teacher, which is the goal, I will be there 100 % of the time, you know, every single day of the week. And that sounds really exciting. So, which is kind of funny because I am an introvert and I need my alone time. But when I’m working and I’m collaborating with people and I’m teaching, like I really, there’s nothing better in my opinion than being live.
Bob Raynor
Yeah. If you’re in the right setting, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s introvert most of the time, right, but then with the right people, the right support system around you, then, you know, that person or, know, you come out of your people come out of their shell, right, where what’s the importance of having that creative outlet, like music or art or whatever. Whatever it is when you’re in those situations where you are alone or you are working in a remote position where there’s not that physical connection, like especially during COVID, you know, and a lot of people were like turning to baking bread or whatever, you know, doing these creative things. So talk to me about the importance of that, of you having that for you during those times.
Elissa
Yeah, so I actually, I picked up piano lessons in earnest in 2020. I had taken a seven year break from piano lessons, which was really tough. I didn’t intend for it to be that way. It just sort of, you know, when I left college, I didn’t have a teacher and I just was busy pursuing, you know, building my career. And so seven years went by and I realized that I was like kind of depressed about not having that.
So I found a teacher through my program and I started taking lessons and then those became virtual lessons. But those lessons sustained me. I mean, I was having them once a week, which now I only do it like once a month. But at the time, I really wanted to get back in the habit and, you know, build up my own practice, so to say. And, It was incredible. I I learned a number of really beautiful pieces by beautiful composers over the course of four years, you know, up until now, really. it was, to answer your question about the importance of creativity and having that outlet, for me, it was a very important reminder of like, this is what you care about. This is what matters to you And you have to do it. You have to nurture this because if you don’t like, it affects my mental health and that it’s just, yeah, it’s like critical.
Bob Raynor
So like seven years without lesson. mean, you, played right? Like you. Okay. So you were still kind of like messing around. like, you didn’t not play or practice on your own in those seven years. Right? Like what.
Elissa
Yeah. Well, kind of tricky, right? Because I always had an electric keyboard in my apartment wherever I lived and I moved a lot during those seven years. But, I had a very, anxious attached, kind of relationship with my piano. I think that’s common with classical musicians is that, you know, when we’re studying, when we’re younger, there’s a lot of competitions, there’s a lot of opportunities for anxiety. and, and looking back, it’s sort of like, don’t really want to introduce that or bring that back into my life. I’m kind of focused on this area right now. So, you know, in retrospect, I actually didn’t spend a lot of time at the piano because there were a lot of other things in my life that were producing anxiety. I could only handle so much.
Bob Raynor
So the thing that brought you joy became a source of anxiety for you. And so how, how do you, do you think like necessity changed that for you or how did you deal with that relationship with between, you know, your anxiety and your music or just your piano playing in general? And how did you kind of come out of that to make it not something that was a source of anxiety for you?
Elissa
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, grad school is the answer. I, in 2019, so the year before COVID really, arrived, I, I took some time off from work for health reasons. And during that time is when I discovered, my love of teaching that had also been percolating in the back of my mind for a while. A lot of my friends and family were like, why don’t you teach piano? And I always, always said no.
There’s a very specific reason why that was. I had a bad experience in college teaching and I just put a sour taste in my mouth, which call me stubborn. Now I see that that was the error of my ways. But the point is like the idea of teaching piano had never really occurred to me. Then then that idea expanded. And I said, wait a minute, I don’t need to teach piano privately. I can teach music generally, you know, to a lot of students. And that’s when it clicked for me. And I said, I want to get my master’s in music education.
So I applied for a program at teachers college. got in and as soon as I took my first class, I, I swear it was like, okay, this is it. I made the right choice. I met my people. And in that I also discovered that I was completely not alone in this. Like, okay, I love what I do again. I love what I do, whether it’s playing clarinet or singing or whatever the case may be, but it does bring me a lot of anxiety. And so how do we overcome that? Well, we have to find the playful aspect. How do we get back to music is fun. I do this because it brings me joy and nothing else. You know, so it’s sort of like backtracking and teaching I think is the ultimate solution because you go back to childhood or you go back to a younger place in your life and you say, what is it that drew me to music in the first place? You know, whether it’s just like hearing something saying I have to investigate that. I have to know where that sound came from. Or hearing a piece of music and saying, really want to be able to play that. What does that look like? So, yes, grad school.
Bob Raynor
Why does that happen to us as adults? Like, why do we lose? Why do you think? I mean, have you had time to think about that or have you pondered that, you know, where it’s like, why do we, you know, I grew up drawing. I used to get in trouble in school because I was like always drawing, not paying attention and I’m drawing. And like, I think in my eighth grade yearbook, I think one of the things I’m most known for, like drawing pictures or something like that. You know, I don’t draw at all, really. And so now as an adult, and sometimes I’ll get back into it, but like, why do you think that that hat, like, why do we lose connection with the things that we are passionate about?
Elissa
Capitalism?
Bob Raynor
the existential need to shop on Amazon. I don’t know, you know, like
Elissa
Yeah, I think there’s a lot of pressure in the society that we live in to produce. And anytime you make a creative thing, something that has to be delivered or handed off or whatever the case may be, it becomes work, like real true work. And there is a big difference between practicing because you want to or practicing because you’re going to put on a recital. And, you know, you have a, I’m thinking now in the art world, like, you know, somebody has asked you to do something with a 24 hour turnaround time. How are you going to make it happen? Those stress levels are very different, right? And so once you get in this world of you need to produce this thing and then it’s going to go on and whatever have its own life cycle outside of your hands, it’s going to be, it’s going to belong to this company, right? It’s not yours. Then it’s just sort of like you lose that excitement because it’s somebody else’s product.
Bob Raynor
Right. Yeah. I just recently started listening to a podcast called The Niche is You by a guy named Matt Gottesman. And literally this morning they talked about how, you know, doing things, setting yourself up for success and doing things that, you know, make you happy or generate the outcome that you want. And he talked about discipline and framed it in a way where it’s discipline is not a punishment, right? Like you think that you have to practice for hours on end because you want to get good at playing the piano, right? But that takes a lot of discipline, but it feels like a punishment sometimes, but it’s not how he framed it was it’s not a punishment. It’s the blueprint. It’s the instructions for how to, you know, whether it’s build furniture from Ikea or, you know, be able to put on a performance or, you know, hit your, hit your weight goal or hit your lifting goal or any, anything you want to do requires that discipline. And we have to look at it as a blueprint because you know, the outcome, if you, if you can set up that time or, you know, have, have the time to work at it, then you know what the outcome is going to be already, as long as you follow those instructions. So it was kind of like a, It was a neat reframing for me. And when you talk about doing something for other people, it feels like almost like a punishment, right? But when you’re doing something for yourself, that whole process feels good.
Elissa
Yeah, yeah, no, that’s very true. It’s very true. So I think the challenge becomes like, even if I have to do this thing, you know, just to, to have a source or means of income, what am going to do for myself that has none of that, you know, those things attached to it, none of the burden of needing to produce. So that’s why I think, you know, this movement of self care that includes things like coloring and It sounds, it might sound like a little juvenile to folks that aren’t doing it, but I have found so much comfort in doing things like that. Just like putting on a show that I already know in the background and focusing on something that ultimately, you know, it doesn’t matter, but it does because you’re connecting back to yourself and you’re finding like, okay, this is how I can calm myself down and just kind of, I don’t know, quietly reflect on life.
Bob Raynor
Yeah. I see it. And I don’t know if it’s just because I’m in that target audience now, but I see so many things on Instagram, where it’s like the retro stuff and it’s these people that collect things from the eighties and this eighties core nostalgia stuff. And, it is, mean, I feel like that there is a lot out there of people just wanting to capture memories or capture the way they felt from when they were young, when they were a kid, the things that comforted them. And I don’t think that it’s juvenile to want to sit down in color or want to do things that made you happy as a kid. So, you were, how many years were you in kind of the advertising world, would you say? 11 years. Is there anything, now that you’re really kind of following your passion and making things happen? there anything you can take from the advertising or the pharma world that can influence the way you approach music and teaching?
Elissa
Ha! Yes, yes, absolutely. It’s come up a number of times, actually, as I’m going around and sort of interviewing slash having informational interviews with folks. I just spoke with the executive director of a music school nearby, and she is also kind of leaving the business world. She’s a real estate person. So she was very focused on that during COVID and now is returning to the music world. And so part of why she liked my resume and wanted me to come in was because she noticed that we’re on the same path. And she’s like, you also have business skills. You also know how to deal with people. This is great. And so we connected in that way. And she told me, she’s like, I think one of the advantages and something that you can offer that other music teachers can’t is that you have those business skills. And so whether it’s just showing up to a meeting on time, or recapping a lesson so that the students have an assignment to take home with them. I mean, these are basic but fundamental building blocks for any type of relationship building. And it comes very naturally to me, sometimes so much so that I don’t even consider it a skill, you know? So I spoke to another woman who was kind of giving me some pointers on starting a private piano lesson or piano studio. And she was like, you have this warmth and enthusiasm and like, that’s really the most important thing. you could be the best piano player in the world. And if you don’t have that with children, none of it matters. Nobody cares. You know, so, and it’s, might sound strange to say that like my being an account director or being an account management taught me warmth.
But it did because I have to know how to talk to people in a way that’s going to make them feel comfortable or safe or secure. And in the business world, those emotional learning skills are so, I feel like they’re very undervalued. They’re not talking about as much as they should be, especially in advertising and especially with women in advertising. So.
Yeah, I definitely am very proud to have that and to be able to take it with me into my next chapter.
Bob Raynor
That’s awesome. Yeah, I mean, it’s empathy, right? And you hear, I hear more stories about people that have managers that don’t know how to manage than people saying, got my managers awesome. They’ve trained me, they’ve helped me, they’ve supported me through X, Y, Z, right? You don’t hear those stories, especially in the advertising world. And then you wonder why there’s so much turnover or, I’ve talked in previous episodes of, you know, people who are in at my level at the, in the advertising world or with level of experience and not being there. then, you know, juniors, people that are in more junior roles are just starting out are kind of being promoted or moved up and pushed into managerial roles before they’re ready for it. You know, and so there’s a lot to be said about knowing how to deal with people. And I’ve said it in the past where, you know, when you’re in the, business of communication and so often people are bad at communicating. you know, so it’s, it’s funny that, you know, you say that you’re pulling the, the act of being able to communicate through to your teaching role. Has it ever been, was it, you think it was always teaching as your pursuit and not performance, maybe even saying performance, don’t want to trigger anything for you, but like, you know, was it always teaching?
Elissa
Yeah, it is a little bit like that. I shouldn’t joke about anything pertaining to triggering, but yeah, I performed a lot as a kid. was, like I mentioned earlier, was in a lot of competitions and recitals and that was sort of like my only relationship to music. And so through grad school and having this kind of time away is when I really discovered what it means to play for myself. Performance as a whole is not something that I’m interested in. requires a level of work that I don’t think I have in me these days. That is very much tied to earlier phases of my life. And so I really, it’s, you know, we were talking about having the outlet and then making sure that it stays with you. Playing piano just for me is that.
That’s the key. Playing piano for other people, depends. Could I accompany a mass at some point, which I am considering doing, yes. Can I play in nursing homes and in the community? Absolutely. But playing up on a stage and giving a performance that people clap at, that’s more of a formal environment, no. Not for me, yeah. I very much enjoy accompanying. I like accompanying singers, for example.
Bob Raynor
Yeah, no, that’s cool. I mean, it doesn’t have to be, you you don’t have to be on the Carnegie Hall, right? Like you don’t have to be on the stage doing that. But even just, you know, whether it’s with a group of people or, you know, performing at a club or something like that. And my grandfather was an entertainer for his whole life. You know, he was he had a he used to play it like there was a seafood restaurant that had a bar and a piano and he played there. He had a fan club. You know, he, he, he played at, at the Iran at country club. He was there, entertainer there, in, in the Philly area for up until, he was in his late eighties, he would travel out there and do that. I mean, that, that was his thing. That was his passion. so, you know, sometimes, you know, people like doing that. And, but I think most of the time, you do it because it makes you happy. And like I said to my daughter, you can do it in a room by yourself and, you know, can be the happiest person in the world just doing that for yourself.
Elissa
That’s amazing. Yeah, yes, that’s true. But it’s funny you mentioned Carnegie Hall because I have performed there when I was 14. I played at Carnegie Hall, but it wasn’t just me. It wasn’t like a solo recital or anything. It was part of a competition for children. But yes, it was one of the yeah, but it was also one of the most nerve wracking things I’ve done as a kid. yeah.
Bob Raynor
See? That’s awesome. But that’s so cool that you can say that. You know, as far as kind of, I don’t want to say this. being in pharma is like very structured, right? And it’s a very kind of structured industry. And now it feels like I get the sense from you that you have like freedom now, right? And you have the freedom to kind of do and go where you want. like, how does that, you know, can you can compare the two? Like, do you act do feel that way? Like, that’s how I get the sense of when I talk to you about music and, you know, just this conversation in general, like, I just get a sense of freedom from you.
Elissa
That’s very nice to hear.
Bob Raynor
Like, what advice do you have for people that are considering something similar or are afraid to follow their passions? Like they think they might, it might lock them down.
Elissa
Yeah, that’s so many questions and I have so many thoughts. Hold on.
Bob Raynor
I know, just, I’m sorry. I was trying to figure out how to ask that question.
Elissa
Yeah, no, it’s a good one because in my mind, even though pharma was the last thing I did in my professional advertising career, I never think about it, if I’m being honest. I never think about pharma like…
Bob Raynor
Good. Good, don’t.
Elissa
Like you were asking, what are the skills that I bring? I always think about the department or the division, but not necessarily pharma. I’m sure there are things about pharma and maybe it’ll come out when I start actually doing more of this full time. But to answer your question about advice and to those who are scared, I’m still scared. I’m terrified.
And it was actually you that encouraged me to like do it anyway, right? To do it scared. You’ve said that in other episodes and I’m just bringing it forward again. I think that’s the through line of this entire podcast is that, you know, so what? Everyone’s scared. And if you didn’t do anything about it and you let yourself just be contained in your bubble because you’re scared, you would not get anywhere, right? And you, and that’s just unfortunate because I think everybody has so much more to offer than their job, job title or job, whatever allows. That’s advertising is so old school and in so many ways, like, I mean, the structure and the hierarchy and all of the titles are from the fifties and they haven’t changed. Despite the fact that like in the fifties, most account managers were men and now that most of them are women, it’s just like, it doesn’t take any of that into account. And I just find that to be very outdated and kind of sad, antiquated, if you will. So, in that sense, I don’t really take anything from it. I jump away from it, you know, and I say that’s that is one form of structure. Let’s find a different one. And so, yeah, freedom is definitely it feels really good. It feels really good to be able to pursue something that has been percolating in my mind for years, I would say at least six or seven years. And it almost feels unreal.
Like surreal and unreal. There are some days I wake up and I can’t believe I’m doing this, you know, and yet I’m still, still trucking and I have this goal and I’m working towards it. And yeah, some days I really like, when I say I’m scared, mean, financially, I have no idea how I’m going to make this work. But that was the thing that held me back for so long, right? Because advertising, once you get to a certain level, it does offer a lot of stability and security.
And I held on to that for a long time. And it was really important for me to have that. But now I’m like, OK, so I’m going to have less of that. And that’s OK. We can still find a way to make this work. I don’t know what it’s going to look like. And that’s OK.
Bob Raynor
How do you balance that? Is that the kind of the practicalities that everybody has of, making a living, but still staying true to who you are and what you want to do? I mean, is it just a mindset? Is it just, you don’t know, you just kind of just kind of DO things, right? Or is it, you know, how does that work for you?
Elissa
Let’s be real, it’s only been three months for me. Yeah, yeah. You know, we’re entering the holiday period. I have to be kind to myself and rest and relax. And you know, this year has been really, really hard. I’ve had two different jobs, three different health insurances. It’s just, you know, one problem after another that I have to keep jumping in and solving. And I’m just ready to like…
Bob Raynor
That’s a long time though.
Elissa
Take a breath and be grateful for where we’re at. But in terms of how do I balance it? Well, I’m very structured in my approach. I account manage myself now. So I like write up recaps and status reports. I keep a tracker of everything that I’m doing. I write down like, here’s what I’m trying to accomplish this week. Here’s what happened last week. If not, if I don’t, I’m going to forget. that is, there’s no room for that right now.
And same with my calendar. I keep my own appointments. I make appointments. I’m constantly following up with people. So there you go. There’s another skill that I’m really grateful I have to keep myself on track.
Bob Raynor
Yeah, one of my other guests, know, he was a strategist and I’m like, are you now your own strategist? Like do you strategize for yourself? Like you use those skills for yourself and it sounds like you’re doing that, you know, taking the good that you learned from the previous career path and, you know, using it to help yourself, forward yourself. So what’s, go ahead.
Elissa
Yes. I would just say that the hardest thing adjustment for me is that, you know, the advertising world moves super fast and people are like constantly at their computers and responding to you, especially clients. so I’m now adjusting to like a two to four slash sometimes two week delay where I don’t hear from people for like.
Bob Raynor
can be maddening. Yeah.
Elissa
Yeah, and the school system, six weeks, you know, between each step. So that is tough because I am anxious to, you know, get the ball rolling. But I have to just kind of step back and know like this isn’t the corporate world anymore. Things definitely move differently.
Bob Raynor
No, it’s a practice in patience, right? I guess it’s building that new skill. So what, what is next for you? You know, you’ve talked about, you know, your goals that you have a goal, but what is, what is that for you? Do you want to, obviously it’s, it’s teaching. Is there a certain grade level that you’re going for where you’re, you’re student teaching or kind of what, what do you think is your, your goal at the moment?
Elissa
Yes, it’s starting to take shape with each passing day. The end goal is to teach music full time in the schools and ideally that would be middle school or high school. I think I’m leaning towards middle school, but at the same time I recognize that I don’t have a full say on the matter. I have a preference, but I will go with whatever, wherever the winds take me. I thought at first that I wanted to teach orchestra.
Because that is, I play violin, I was in an orchestra both at my high school and with my city. And it was some of the best times of my life, being part of an ensemble, getting to travel and learning some incredible music. But I’ve actually been advised that I should pursue general music and choir because I play piano and piano is my primary instrument. So that way I would be able to accompany the choir and or teach piano.
A number of schools in the area have piano classes and piano labs, which I’ve been able to kind of tour and that’s been incredible. So yeah, I don’t, they don’t really hire for these roles until February or March. So I’m kind of, I’m substitute teaching now to kind of get exposure and see different schools, meet different people and maybe get a sense of like, okay, what are we targeting?
But in the meantime, I’m really just trying to stay open-minded and say, maybe what I have in mind isn’t exactly what I want. And I’ll find out along the way how I want to redefine that.
Bob Raynor
That’s great. Talk to me about music as a creative outlet, just in general. I think when I started this podcast, was thinking, you know, finding your creative flame, right? And I was thinking about it in the mindset of like a designer. And, music is incredibly important for, especially in the school system. You know, I guess there’s been studies that show that you know, kids that study music or playing instrument, do better in school, have better relationships, things like that. So, I want to give you the opportunity to talk about the importance of music as a creative outlet for yourself and for the people that you teach.
Elissa
So this is something I’ve been thinking about, especially knowing that I was going to come on the podcast. What’s interesting about where I’m at right now in terms of making this transition is that I got to see both sides of like where I’m going, where I came from. We talked about the skills I’m taking from advertising into music, but all this time for the last 11 years, music has been informing what I did in the advertising world. And even though people would look at my resume and say, okay, you’ve got degrees in music, what does that matter? It rarely ever came up. Honestly, most people were concerned with my experience. music taught me discipline. Music taught me coordination, even just as a pianist, right hand, left hand kind of thing, taking things apart and putting them back together. Being able to see the whole picture, being able to know, even if you just think about a musical phrase, I have worked with teachers so long, teachers of mine who are like, okay, where are we going with this phrase? What are we hearing? What do we want people to hear? And all of those skills, well, they’re very specific to music. They are also transferable. And so I was always thinking, especially because I came into the advertising world without having an advertising degree or really any kind of experience, I was always thinking, okay, I know how to perform. I know how to put on a show.
And I know how to fake it until I make it. I have no idea what I’m doing. This first couple of years, yeah, I had no idea what I was doing. I didn’t know what people were talking about because they kind of just place you in meetings and they’re like, take notes. That’s kind of it. And so I had this inner composure the whole time where people often will assume that I’m very zen and very in control.
That is a lie. That is a lie. I am actually very nervous most of the time. And so piano has taught me that, know, piano performance. And getting up on stage and my leg is shaking, you know, as I’m trying to hit the pedal and my hands are freezing, but I’m still gonna make all the notes because I know the piece and I know what I’m trying to say, like what message I’m trying to communicate. Advertising, that’s all it is. What is the story that we’re trying to tell, right?
So that has served me so well all these years. And again, I’m very grateful that I get to experience both sides of it.
Bob Raynor
That’s cool. You just have to be a duck, right? Right? Very calm on the surface and going like crazy underneath to keep moving forward. So, you know, what is the takeaway? Like, what do you think? Do you think about the messages? And maybe you did already answer that question, but like, have you thought about the messages that you will deliver to your students and like what is the message, the takeaway from this conversation that you want to have?
Elissa
That is, have I figured out what I want to tell my students? No, no, I’ll be honest with you. I haven’t. but I think like, keep telling myself it’s okay. I just taught a class the other day. I, you know, it was like one period. This teacher just needed me to cover one period. So I came in and, it was a piano lab and there are a number of students in this class that they don’t really care. You know, they’re not, they’re not making too big of a.
They’re not that big of troublemakers, but they’re kind of just like goofing around. And then there was one student in the back who like really, he had his headphones on, he had the music open and he was literally practicing. And the period was like an hour and a half. And, and in the beginning of the lesson, he was like, I’m, I’m lost. I’m confused. I don’t know what to do. And I’m like, okay, so let’s talk through it. And I, we talked through like one or two measures and that was enough to get him through like the next two bars. And so I came back maybe half an hour later and he was like, can I play for you what I’ve learned? And I was like, my God, yes. And at that point, I think the class had been dismissed. Most of the kids had left by then and it was the last period of the day. So he just kind of hung back and showed me what he was learning. And I just, I was like, see, this is it. This is why, like, there is always going to be that one student in every class who like really does care and wants to learn. That for me, that is the takeaway right now is like music may not be for everybody. Creativity may not be everybody’s personal pursuit, but there is a role for music to play in everybody’s life if you choose, if you choose to take it.
Bob Raynor
Great message. It’s a great message. I think more people should take that opportunity to dabble in music. You know. And I appreciate that you had the the bravery to share with me because when we talked when I found out that you were a pianist and a trained musician, I asked to see, you know, you said you had posted some stuff online. But you were afraid to share it. And I was like, No, you have to share it with me. And it was wonderful and I was so happy that you shared that with me. So I appreciate you coming on and sharing everything in this conversation today.
Elissa
Yeah, thank you so much. It’s been a pleasure.
Bob Raynor
Well, I want to keep in touch and make sure that we follow your journey. And I wish you the best of luck.
Elissa
Thank you so much. Thanks.
Bob Raynor
Thanks, Elissa!