In this episode of The Flame, Bob Raynor interviews Maria Kravets, a UI/UX designer and blackbelt kickboxer. Maria shares her experience navigating a layoff, how she’s kept her creative passion alive, and how her background in kickboxing has influenced her resilience. They discuss the importance of empathy in design, embracing discomfort, and why slowing down can be a powerful tool in career transitions. Tune in for an insightful conversation on growth, creativity, and staying true to yourself during challenging times.
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Show Notes:
I think having a growth mindset is probably the most important thing. Understanding that where you are right now is not a reflection of where you might be.
And I think also looking back on everything you’ve accomplished so far is so invaluable, because I really don’t think that we understand just how much we accomplish until we pause for a second and slow down and look back on those accomplishments.
~ Maria Kravets
Key Takeaways:
- Dealing with Layoffs: Maria talks about the unexpected layoff she faced and how she used fitness, mindfulness, and gratitude to navigate it.
- From Marketing to UX Design: The journey that led Maria from a marketing background to discovering her passion for UX design.
- Importance of Empathy in Design: How Maria’s immigrant background shaped her approach to empathy in user experience.
- Lessons from Kickboxing: Resilience, discipline, and a growth mindset—how Maria’s blackbelt experience supports her professional life.
- Job Search Insights: Practical strategies for approaching the job search with intention, inspired by the book Never Search Alone.
Episode Links:
- Connect with Maria Kravets on LinkedIn
- Book Mentioned: Never Search Alone by Phil Terry
Episode 4 Transcript:
Maria Kravets
I think having a growth mindset is probably the most important thing. Understanding that where you are right now is not a reflection of where you might be.
And I think also looking back on everything you’ve accomplished so far is so invaluable, because I really don’t think that we understand just how much we accomplish until we pause for a second and slow down and look back on those accomplishments.
Bob Raynor
Today on The Flame, we’re joined by Maria Kravets—a successful UI/UX designer, and a passionate advocate for creating inclusive user experiences. Maria holds the distinct honor of blackbelt in mixed martial arts and brings her resilience from the dojo into her creative work. Today, she’ll share her journey navigating a recent layoff, finding new inspiration, and her perspective on crafting meaningful user interactions. Let’s get started.
Hey, Maria.
Maria Kravets
Hello.
Bob Raynor
How are you?
Maria Kravets
I’m good. How are you?
Bob Raynor
Good, good. Thank you for joining the podcast today. I really appreciate it. I’m excited to have you on.
Maria Kravets
Yeah, I’m excited to speak with you and see where the conversation goes.
Bob Raynor
Awesome. So, I, you know, I had a whole list of questions I was going to start with, but, you know, I think I want to talk about, jump right into, the layoff, of course. So I know when we, when we talked in class, you know, you mentioned that you had been laid off in August.
I got laid off in July. And it seemed like we were going through a lot of the same. I keep meeting people, like this that are going through the same thing all the time. And it’s amazing since. Since that time. It’s just too many people, and it’s unfortunate, but, you know, you’ve been a little less than me, so, I’m, I’m really interested in learning about how you’ve been staying motivated, what you’ve been doing to keep your flame alive.
And, you know, kind of in this period of transition for you. And, Yeah.
Maria Kravets
Yeah. I feel like. So I remember I got laid off on, I think it was August 14th or 15th and the day before had marked my exactly one and a half year anniversary of the company. So it kind of felt almost like, I don’t know if poetic is the right therapy’s here, but kind of like, oh, it’s such an interesting, you know, number of months to have worked and for it to be like, that’s it.
That’s where we’re ending. I was definitely really upset because I didn’t see it coming. And so I actually had a trip planned. Two weeks after that, I think, to Quebec with my friends. So I think that was good timing in the sense that it kind of gave me something to take my mind off of the fact that I was just laid off, and just enjoying myself in the moment of whatever I was doing.
So I think that definitely helped a lot, because it happened right after the layoff. And I think since then I’ve been just trying to figure out what other things I can focus on. So you mentioned class. So I’ve been focusing more on fitness, which has always been very important to me, but I actually, I’ve been lifting probably since like 2018.
And I put a pause on that. Earlier this year, I switched to Pilates for a little less, of like a load on the body and decided to come back to lifting. So that’s been good. Because I find that I get very, not apprehensive, but, like, jittery if I’m not working out enough. And I think obviously this is a, you know, more stressful time than usual.
So I think fitness has been a big help with that. And I also think, just as weird as it sounds, enjoying the moment because I so I fortunately live with my parents. I don’t have to worry about rent, which is really nice. And I’m taking this time because I know I’m going to find a job at some point to just be grateful for the fact that I can take things a little slower.
And appreciate that I can, you know, relax a little bit for now because I know that that won’t be the case when I find another position. Right? So, yeah, I think I’m also the type person who I struggle not to be productive and not to feel guilty when I’m resting. And so I think this has been a really great practice for me in being able to just rest when I need it or rest even a little more than usual because, again, stressful times.
Yeah. So I think that’s where I’ve been. I think just pouring into the stuff that I really like that I enjoy and being mindful of what I can be grateful for right now. I think that’s always when I come back to just what can I be grateful for in this moment. So.
Bob Raynor
Right. Yeah. It’s amazing that you really try to, reevaluate those things. Or, you know, I found that for me, it was always. You don’t even have time to think about that. Those things just kind of put on the back burner. And then when you’re committed with the, you know, a transition like that, it really which in a way is a good thing, right?
Where you’re, you’re kind of forced to to do that. So, to kind of go back a little bit, I wanted to give you opportunity to like, talk about your experiences as a designer and, you know, your your history in the creative industry and kind of where, you know, in light of your recent transition and to, you know, looking for a new job and how you’re evaluating yourself, maybe what things that you are looking for in your next role.
Maria Kravets
Yeah. So I actually, transitioned into UX. This has been a career pivot for me. And I did that about I want to say, like for three and a half, four years ago. So I did a boot camp, and I ended up transitioning into UX because I had actually I went to school for marketing, and I found a role as a essentially data analyst after college.
Realized that wasn’t it for me. I ended up working part time in a chiropractic office as like an operations manager, front desk receptionist person. And then at that point, trying to figure out what my career path was going to look like. So I actually found out about UX on TikTok, learn more about it. And I was like, this is exactly for me because I think it’s a really great balance of creativity.
And also more logical thinking. So I really like that balance of those two things. And so I decided to do the bootcamp pivot into this. So I, I worked at an agency initially, for a few months, and then I found my full time role in January of 2023. So I’ve had different experiences. My agency role was I was working typically on teams of 4 to 5.
The projects would take like 4 to 6 weeks. So I was consistently changing not only teams but also projects. And in my last role I worked with really just in terms of UX, just my director. So me and one other designer essentially, and I mean, we were juggling all sorts of stuff constantly. So it’s never I have a.
Bob Raynor
Role that you signed on for, right? It’s always yeah, a little addition here or there, right?
Maria Kravets
For sure. I mean, I really like it. I think I’m the type person. Definitely. Who, when I’m not interested in my work, I can’t do it for a long period of time. And so I think UX has been revolutionary for me in that sense, where I really, genuinely enjoyed doing it. And in my last role, I focused a lot on user interface, which is one part of the UX process.
But in general, I feel like the UX process as a whole is so interesting, and I think that’s been a big help in keeping my creative juices going and continuing to want to show up for my work. I don’t know if that answers your question or if you have any other questions from that.
Bob Raynor
No. I mean, like, what do you think was it you said you found out about it on TikTok and it was really interesting to you? Like, was there kind of, an moment where, you know, you just started digging deeper and you were just like, wow, this really speaks to my passion because like, marketing is one side of it.
But then, I mean, marketers think that they’re creative, but maybe not all of them aren’t. Yeah, they think they are. So it sounds like you tapped into something, when you found the UI versus marketing, like, what was that?
Maria Kravets
Yeah. It’s funny that you mentioned that, actually, because my mom’s concern when I went to college was finding myself a major that would actually make me money. And so I chose marketing because out of the business majors, because business is supposed to make money, it was the most creative. So that’s actually why I went down that path.
Obviously didn’t work out. But at the in the end I ended up finding UX. But when I when I came across that TikTok, I remember I started looking into it more because I remember exactly what the video said. But I remember I probably mentioned something about empathy. You probably mentioned something about creativity and also, you know, logical thinking and database thinking.
And I think from there I was just going down a rabbit hole of exactly what it was. And I was worried because I remember being worried because I thought, what if this is another one of those times when I found something I think that I think I like, and then I learn more about it and I’m like, actually, no.
And I remember the more I found out about it, the more interested in it I was. And that was really exciting for me. And I actually initially started off doing, Google and Coursera had a UX certification, and I started going through it, and I realized because all the work was peer reviewed. So I didn’t know whether the people reviewing my work actually cared about what they were reading, if they knew what they were talking about.
When they gave me feedback. And I think that was a point where I was like, okay, it’s time to take the next step and become more serious about this. So it was exciting for me to find something where even after I can, I continue to learn more and more about it. I didn’t get the feeling of, yeah, this actually is not for me.
Like I just became more excited about it. So that was really that was really great. Especially because I spent like a couple of years trying to figure out what my next career move would be, and I had finally found something that worked for what I wanted to do.
Bob Raynor
You mentioned, you know, things like empathy in, in the design aspect of it. So as you know, typically I would think when somebody thinks about a UI or UX designer, they’re thinking, oh it’s very digital. It’s just websites, you know, it doesn’t feel it feels a little bit colder. Right. So like how do you how how were you able to bring your like personal values and like, like inclusivity and like you said, empathy into those projects, into your career.
Maria Kravets
Yeah. No. That’s a great question. So it’s interesting you asked that because, so I have an immigrant background. I was actually born in Ukraine. My family is Ukrainian, and I moved here. I mean, I was nine months old, so I’ve basically been here my entire life. But I do feel that my cultural background definitely had a big impact on my childhood in terms of I definitely felt even though, again, I grew up here, I felt ostracized still because the language I spoke at home was not the same.
When I spoke at school, I didn’t even learn English until I was like 5 or 6 years old. So I, I struggled in school a little bit when I was young because I couldn’t communicate with the students and the teachers, just like customs and traditions that we have were different from the ones that people have here.
And I feel like knowing what it feels like not to fit in that definitely, I think resonated a lot with me in terms of when I found out about UX and I was like, oh, so this field is about putting yourself in someone else’s shoes and trying to figure out how they would feel interacting with something. And I think that’s kind of my approach to it.
And I mean, obviously just like empathy in general. Right? Empathy is something that you have to I think, I think it’s a skill that you hone because there are just so many different types of situations. People can be in and so many different types of backgrounds people can have and I think it’s difficult to think of everything.
And every day I learn about something new that I hadn’t thought about, like, this is this is kind of relevant. But even today, we’re just watching a video of a guy, and he was at Starbucks and he zoomed in on this, or someone had ordered a like to go order of just milk. And he was laughing and he was like, who did that and why?
And I look in the comments and, and a lot of women are like, oh, a mom probably had to feed her kid because she, you know, need it. She didn’t have time. She was running around or someone else was like, oh, maybe a Starbucks barista, wanted to use that as their free drink for the day. And they didn’t have milk at home, so they wanted to bring home some milk.
And those are the examples where I’m like, you literally have no idea why other people, why they act the way they act until they explain it, or, you know, things like that that I think make you so interesting and also just in general, encouraged us to be better humans because they encourage us to think about other circumstances that we ourselves might not have experienced.
So I feel like I’ve really resonated for UX for that reason, is it’s coming up with solutions to problems that people different from you have, and it challenges you to think outside the box.
Bob Raynor
That’s amazing. And I think it’s a lot of that is on everybody’s mind right now with, you know, world events. You know, and I think it does require especially, you know, that aside, you know, just having, looking for work in general requires a good deal of, of resilience. And so it sounds like, you know, your background has provided you plenty of that.
But I also wanted to touch on, you know, you mentioned that you’re big in health and fitness. Obviously, we take kickboxing classes together. And so for people that don’t know, Maria is a highly talented black belt. And I’m. We go to the same school for kickboxing. I’m a green belt. I just leveled up into the advanced class.
Where you’ve been there for years.
Maria Kravets
Congratulations. It’s it’s a big. It’s a big leap to take, I remember that.
Bob Raynor
Yeah, yeah. And so I’m getting pummeled on a weekly basis. So. And I wouldn’t want to. I wouldn’t want to fight Marie either. So, but to that point, you know, there our school teaches a lot about, you know, resilience through non quitting speaking. And so how, you know, how would you say that, your journey in health, fitness and kickboxing?
You know, how have you gained that resilience to kind of, translate into your career search or into how you approach, design in general?
Maria Kravets
Yeah. I love that question. I think, I think that my health and fitness and I honestly, I’m going to even type like self-love journey into this because I feel like I’ve had when I was younger, I definitely had more body image issues. And I’ve been working on that and health and fitness tie into that, obviously. So I think,
I think a lot of it has to do with your mindset. And I know that our sensei talks about that all the time. And I think understanding that. I mean, we start I think having a growth mindset is probably the most important thing. Understanding that where you are right now is not a reflection of where you might be.
And I think also looking back on everything you’ve accomplished so far is so invaluable, because I really don’t think that we understand just how much we accomplish until we pause for a second and slow down and look back on those accomplishments. Like even thinking now. And I use this example all the time in regards to health and fitness.
I remember in middle school I struggled to run a mile. That was something that we had to do every single year in gym class, and I was consistently one of the last people to finish it, and my time was obviously never any good. And now I remember I was training for, Challenge of Champions, which is a competition that our organization holds.
And I remember training for that a couple of years ago. And I was jogging for like an hour straight, and that was intense. That would have been inconceivable to me when I was in middle school. Right. Same thing with getting my black belt. I remember sensei, when he told me that he wanted to. He wanted me to participate in the background ceremony.
He told me, at this point, you’re a black belt. I really only need you to just pass your strength training, which was like push ups, squats and plank. And I had been. I mean, I had been a black belt for a very long time prior to that. It’s just I was never in any rush to receive the belt itself because it was symbolic to me.
Like, I think people, a lot of the time focus a lot on things like status symbols or just some kind of symbols where they can indicate to other people, this is where I’m at, like, this is the level I’m at or this is who I am. This is what I heavily identify with. And I think for me, I’m okay holding off on attaining things until I feel really, really ready to accept it.
So I even, I even remember when sensei had said, hey, I want you to participate in the ceremony. And I told him I was like, are you sure? Like, do you are you sure I’m a black belt? Because I don’t mind being absolutely 100% certain to receive something and feel like I’ve really, deserved it. And I know some people, like, again, our sensei always mentions not always, but he’s mentioned a few times where if you come to me asking when you’re going to get your next belt, I promise you, you just extended that date another like however many weeks or months or whatever.
And I’ve never asked him because I don’t really care for the belt itself. It’s more about feeling like I actually am at that level. And so I think with everything I do in general, I think sometimes compassion imposter syndrome does set in where I what I question myself a little bit and I’m like, am I actually capable of doing this?
Like, am I actually as good as I think I am? But I’m also very thorough with the stuff that I really enjoy and love to do and learn about. And so I think that’s also been a big part of things for me, where I’m not in a rush to prove to anyone that I can do something. The main thing is for me to feel confident in myself and my knowledge, or my accomplishments or my work or whatever it is.
So yeah, I think, I think it’s really just taking your time and not living by other people’s timelines or or succumbing to their expectations of you.
Bob Raynor
Right? Yeah. I mean, and it’s it’s an amazing it’s amazing that you have that self-awareness. I think a lot of people don’t have that. Especially in now when everything is like status symbol, right? Everything has to be award winning, everything has to be viral. Everything has to have, you know, be a hit. And, you know, we forget to, kind of focus on the process of things and just 1% better every day.
Focus on yourself and not the, you know, outside influences. Do you think that that’s more of, like, a cultural influence for you? Do you think that that, you know, having that immigrant, immigrant background, helps you in that way?
Maria Kravets
I definitely think it plays into it. My parents are both very intelligent people. My mom ended up getting her master’s degree here in computer science. She got her. She became PMP certified. She was a project manager at Merck. So I feel like definitely my parents fit into that. But I also have very high expectations for myself just because of what I want to do with my life.
And I. There’s just so much out there, I feel like that I want to see and experience. And so I think I like to set a high standard for myself and just see where I end up with that. But yeah, I definitely think having also people around you who encourage that in you is so important. One of my best friends is very similar to me in that respect.
And she has her own business. She makes really good money with it. She’s really happy with her life. She gets to make her own hours. And I think ultimately, my goal is the same where I am able to enjoy my life and I enjoy what I do enough again, that I want to continue pouring into it and showing up for it.
And I think that’s another thing is, and I also have the privilege of saying that because my basic needs are met. I know for a lot of people that’s not the case, but I, I, I genuinely just want to build a really great life for myself. And I think that’s that’s always been my driving goal. Like driving my driver behind everything that I do is I don’t want to be miserable because I think a lot of people are miserable and I don’t I don’t really want to be one of them.
Bob Raynor
Yeah. It it helps to have a really good support system. And I think, you know, you kind of touched on that with, you know, the family, but you’ve also, mentioned to me, you know, when we first started talking in class and then I saw in one of your posts, you spoke about a book called Never Search Alone.
I know you said has opened your eyes on a, you know, to a new way of approaching how you find your next role. And so how how does that connect with, you know, having that support? And what has that book meant to you in your search?
Maria Kravets
Yeah. No, thank you for bringing that up because I actually forgot to mention it. I feel like it’s been. It’s been very helpful because it provides another perspective on how to approach job searching. And I think it also ties back into what I was talking about when I said, I don’t mind taking longer if I feel more secure in what I’ve accomplished.
And the thing that never search alone really stresses is taking your time and understanding exactly the type of work that you are available for, that you have the skills for, and that the market will take you as and I think that’s been really helpful for me, because last time I was job searching a few years ago, prior to getting my last role, I mean, I had probably applied to like 6 or 700 positions by the time I got that job, and I ended up getting it through someone I knew, not even through one of my job applications.
Which is funny this time around because never search alone stresses the importance of reaching out to your network. People that you know, speaking with, you know, people who know you well, speaking with recruiters, just really anyone that you think could be valuable in your job search and and not in like a way where you’re using people in a way where you’re, you know, obviously building meaningful relationships and you and you want to help them out in return.
But that book, I think, has been really important because it’s kind of just reiterated everything that I, I think live by, which is I don’t have to do everything super quickly. And it’s okay to take your time with things. I think especially now, like we live in such a fast paced society and we’re constantly told that our value is based on how much and what we produce.
And I think the idea of, again, slowing down, really asking yourself like, what am I looking for? What am I doing? What can I do differently from what I’ve been doing? Has that been working for me? Asking yourself all these questions and really understanding exactly what it is you’re trying to accomplish. I think that book has really helped me with that, and I’m not even done the entire thing.
I’m still like halfway through because I’m still working on doing the tasks that I’ve read about so far and not proceeding to the next part of the book if I haven’t accomplished what it’s already talked about. So I think it’s really helpful for anyone who maybe is kind of maybe disillusioned or frustrated with the job search experience and wants to try something new and that’s not to say it’s not going to be an uncomfortable experience, because it definitely is because the author, he gives a timeline based on if you’re looking for work and you’re unemployed like I am, or if you’re looking for work and you’re still working, and the shortest amount of time that
he says you would have a job by if you do everything that he he recommends is two months, which is like a decent amount of time. It’s not super long, but if you’re really taking your time, and that’s for people who are who are employed and like focusing all their efforts on this. Two months is still like, it’s not, you know, it’s not right away.
So I think I like the fact that it focuses on slowing down and being mindful. And I think those are two things I’m very definitely very passionate about.
Bob Raynor
That’s great. Are there can you share some of the things, some of the tasks that you’re working on from the book so far or some. Yeah, things that you think I mean, are there things that you didn’t know before you started reading the book or things that where like you knew but you didn’t realize how important they would be to your search?
Maria Kravets
Yeah. So one of the first things that you do is you first, you form a job search council, which the book also gives you the ability to. I think they have a website where you can go and find other people who are also seeking work. And so you form a job search. Council typically has 4 to 5 people in it.
My friend the recommended me this book was already searching for a job, so she and I did our own little duo, and then another woman I knew also started looking for work. So she joined us. And we’re not following things to a tee just because we’re in different phases. So they are still both working full time and I’m not.
So we’re kind of in different spots of the job search, but that’s the first step. And it’s it’s essentially meant to help provide you and the other people in your group with support and reassurance while you are doing the job search, which I definitely think is helpful because family and friends are great. Obviously that’s so support that you want, but if they’re not going through the exact same thing as you, they might not be going through the exact same motions as you and, you know, having the same thoughts.
And so I think it’s nice to have people who are also looking for work at the same time to bounce ideas off of and such. And then after you form your job search council, you figure out what your I think candidate market fit is, so, oh, you know, sorry. You create your menu and two pager so you can two pager is essentially where you write what you like doing what you don’t like doing, what you want your next role to have, what you don’t want it to have.
And that is meant to help you get really clear on exactly what kind of work you want to do, so that you’re not just out here applying to random roles just because they’re available. And, you know, just posted online, you come across them, you’re like, oh, I’ll apply to this, but it’s not really fitting what you’re looking for.
So you do that and then you do interviews with past, coworkers, people that you’ve, Yeah. Past coworkers. It can also be past, like, higher ups, like supervisors and bosses and stuff. You ask them essentially what they see you doing, I guess based on your experience and like, your skill level, you also read them your two pager and they tell you based on that, what they think that you would be a good match for.
And then you do the same thing you do Golden question interviews, which are basically, interviews just with people who know you. Well, again, tell them, this is my two pager. This is what I have here. What do you think based on that. And then you can also do I think it was. Oh, and then you also want to figure out, based on a recruiter’s viewpoint, what the market is available for.
So, you know, you might have all this, all these ideas of what kind of role you want, but if the market is not able to provide what you want, then you’re inevitably going to be disappointed. So kind of aligning those two things and that’s your candidate market fit. And so that’s kind of where I am now, where I’ve kind of been refining my candidate market fit, looking for a couple of recruiters to bounce ideas off of and just see what I could be considered a fit for.
And I feel like even those like these three steps of forming a council, having support and doing these interviews and looking for recruiters to connect with not not to get a job, but to get feedback. I think that’s definitely been very different from a lot of the job search advice that I’ve heard. So I found it very interesting.
Bob Raynor
Yeah, I it sounds, you know, it’s a very active approach that, you know, you’re gathering a lot of data on yourself, right? I mean, yeah, the whole reason I started this was because I was trying to figure out for myself what it is I wanted to, to do and where I wanted to be. But that sounds like it’s, you know, very task oriented and has, you know, an outline and, and an expected outcome which feels a lot better than just sitting around trying to write notes.
And. Yeah, what you want to do, actually getting that feedback. Was there any hesitation or fear on your part to reach out to people to, you know, was it hard to to do that and ask for that personal feedback?
Maria Kravets
I think a little, a little bit. I was a little scared to ask my, past director for help. And I feel some like I’ve. This is something I’m still working on, but reaching out to recruiters and and not feeling like, hey, can you give me a job? But more so I value your input and your experience.
I think coming across that way, is something that feels a little different because it’s not something I’ve done in the past. But again, I think it’s just another thing that is uncomfortable and is a challenge. And that’s why I have to do it, because I, I that’s how we grow. We step outside our comfort zones. So yeah, I think, it’s definitely been a little bit uncomfortable.
I would be lying if I said it wasn’t, but I don’t think it’s been as uncomfortable as I would think. And I also think we don’t always consider just how many people that we already know that could also contribute to the work that, is required to be done in the book. So I think that’s another thing, is just reframing your perspective on who can provide you with input that would be valuable to you during your job search.
Bob Raynor
To, you know, it’s just things that you don’t even think about. What’s the name of the author of the book?
Maria Kravets
I have it right here, even one second. Here’s the book cover. Author’s name is Phil. Terry.
Bob Raynor
Oh, yeah. I’m definitely gonna I’m definitely going to look into picking that up because it’s it really sounds like an interesting approach. It’s like you actually, you really do have to. It’s like a full time job trying to get the information that you need. Do you think that it’s helped you, like, everyone talks about, you know, finding your why and, you know, obviously that your flame and your purpose and all that, like, do you think that this, that you are making, kind of headway with that or you feel like you are closer to finding what it is that you are, what your why is and I, you know.
Maria Kravets
Yeah. No, I definitely think I do, I think and this may sound kind of silly because I think there’s really been one major thing. It’s it’s helped me realize. But that major thing has had an impact on me is it made me better, it made me realize specifically which industries I would be most interested in working in, which I think was very helpful to me, because when you can narrow down specifically where you want to be looking, I think then it makes it easier to research certain companies and that industry reach out to people in that industry and see what insights they may have.
And for me, those three were femtech, which two which focuses on women’s health, and technology, travel, because I really love travel. And I just, I think it would be fun to work in an industry where I genuinely enjoy the end product. And the other one would be health and wellness or health and fitness. Just because I obviously genuinely have a love for that as well.
And my last two roles have been health care, so I already kind of have somewhat of a background in that as well.
Bob Raynor
That’s great. Yeah. What do you have any additional advice to other designers or people in your, sector who are kind of between jobs or struggling to stay productive? It sounds like you’ve been incredibly productive. But I know that within those first few days and weeks after a layoff, you feel like all you want to do is kind of hide.
And I’m, I’m inspired by what you’re telling me and how you’ve approached your, your, your layoff and your, you know, quest to find a new role and find what it is you want to do. So, is there any other advice that you would kind of give to people in a similar situation?
Maria Kravets
Yeah, I think it’s funny that you say the first two weeks after you want to kind of hide. I think I was actually very, very productive. The first month or so after getting laid off, because there was so much uncertainty about what was going to happen, and I wasn’t. This was a complete shakeup for my schedule and my routine, and what my life looked up, looked like.
And so I think after that first month, which was basically like through mid and end of September, I kind of got my groove and started slowing down a bit in the sense of really understanding again, what am I trying to accomplish here? What do I want my next role to look like? And specifically, what skills do I want to learn in the meantime that could also help me land that next role, because, I mean, I know people are to talk about it, but I was coming for everyone’s jobs and any anything else right now where we need to embrace new technologies or just new things in order to become better designers or adapt to
the environment, that’s changing. I think that’s kind of been my focus. So I started learning JavaScript because I wanted to I want to be able to better communicate with developers and bridge gaps that I feel like I’ve heard there are that are present between developers and designers sometimes. So that’s been my skill that I’ve been focusing on. I would love to focus more on AI after I complete my JavaScript course.
My mom is constantly talking about it, so she she actually worked on a, I think it was like a robotics automation team or something at Merck. So she’s very tech savvy, more so than a lot of parents, I would say. And she’s the one who keeps me ahead of, or keeps me informed of trends that are currently in the tech space.
So she’s always telling me, like, you know, learn more about machine learning and learn more about AI. So I think really just understanding what skills that I could use that I don’t have currently and focusing on that, but also not overwhelming myself to the point where I’m trying to learn many different things and none of them stick because I’m the type person where I need to practice something over and over and over again before I really get good at it.
So I think learning JavaScript and I’m also continuing to practice in my design program Figma, because I’m not using that as consistently, obviously, since I am not working. So I’m making sure I’m not losing those skills. So I think coming up with a routine post, you know, leaving a job or getting laid off or whatever is number one, make it like figuring out what what is my day to day look like now?
Creating some structure, but also allowing yourself to just to whatever extent you can. Again, because I know people have bills to pay, but to whatever that you can take time for yourself rest, because once you get a job, you’re not going to be resting as much. And just enjoy the season of life that you’re in as much as you possibly can.
So it’s yeah, a lot of it. Like, obviously we control whether we’re out looking for jobs and looking for work and what our experience in our skills is like. But a lot of this is not determined by us. There’s a lot of people looking for jobs, and not as many jobs need to be filled. So we don’t have control over all the circumstances.
So I think just keeping hope alive and knowing that when the time is right, you’ll find something right.
Bob Raynor
That’s great advice. You know, you we talked about how you transition from marketing to UI, UX in this kind of journey you’re on now, do you still see, UI UX as kind of where you want to stay, or do you see, like as you start to learn more about yourself and the industry and where you the things that you want to do and the people that you’re connecting with, do you see that changing?
Do you see yourself maybe moving out of UI, UX and into something else?
Maria Kravets
So I consider myself what I and I learned this term from, again, TikTok. But a multi passionate or multi-hyphenate. So I’m someone who really likes learning how to do a bunch of different stuff. And I’m sure you’ve heard the, the quote or. Yeah, quote. A jack of all trades is a master of none. I’ve heard that.
So I learned there’s a second part to that, which is a jack of all trades, is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one. And I think hearing that quote gave me permission to feel like I can have a lot of different interests and pour myself into a bunch of different things and not feel like I’m weird for doing that, or I guess more so, like, oh, it’s weird that I’m not amazing at one thing.
I’m just I’m really great at a bunch of different stuff. So I’ve actually been experimenting with content creation. I think design in general is really interesting to me. I’m really into organizing like home organization, so that’s what my content creation has been around. But I think ultimately my interest in being creative and literally creating just for the sake of creating is leading me to all these other hobbies and things that are kind of not definitely not directly related to UX design, but kind of adjacent in the sense that I get to be making something from it.
And so I think that’s that’s something that I’ve also been really pursuing, is just what else can I do outside of my career that is also still enriching for my soul and also maybe maybe making me some extra money because I’m all about setting up passive income sources.
Bob Raynor
So yeah, that’s great advice because I think people get focused on like, oh, this is what I do and I can’t. I have to stay in my lane. And you know, I have to just find this one thing that I’m passionate about. And it doesn’t have to be that way. Right? I mean, it can be that creativity can come from any, any source.
Maria Kravets
Yep.
Bob Raynor
So and I myself, when I was sitting there thinking about what I wanted to do and I just was like, I’m just going to do whatever. I’m just going to start checking things off. Yeah. You know, lo and behold, here I am. I’m doing this. And so, you know, I think what you said is absolutely true, that you don’t have to be, it’s helpful to be to have a little bit of an expertise in a job, but in your creative life and, outside of that, you know, the things that keep people going.
It doesn’t have to be one thing. It can be, you know, your interests can go into all different genres. So I love that advice. Yeah.
Maria Kravets
Absolutely. Thank you.
Bob Raynor
Yeah. So I mean, I appreciate your your time coming on here tonight. I know you’re you’re busy. You know, we were talking about you know, my kids are running around and all kinds of stuff. So, I really appreciate you taking a few minutes to to join me here and for sharing a lot of great information.
Maria Kravets
Of course. Thank you for having me.
Bob Raynor
I wish you the best of luck and definitely keep me posted. I’m going to be following you on that on the journey. I’m going to pick up that book too. So.
Maria Kravets
Love it. Let me know what you think. I’m excited to hear. Absolutely.
Bob Raynor
All right.
Maria Kravets
Thank you.
Bob Raynor
Take care.
Maria Kravets
You too. Bye.
Bob Raynor
Thanks to Maria Kravets for being a guest on today’s show and thank you for joining me on The Flame Podcast. There’s definitely more to come. Please take a minute to follow, subscribe or hit the like button if you haven’t done so already. And if you have any feedback, or I’d like to be a guest on my show, send me a message. I’d love to hear from you.